April 23, 2008
Jarred Allen trade increases trade value of the Raiders draft pick: Thoughts from a Reader's Side
Jared Allen will no longer be harassing Raider quarterbacks like Andrew Walter.
The news of the day is that the Oakland Raiders' arch rival traded their Pro Bowl defensive end Jared Allen to the Minnesota Vikings. That alone would be enough of an excuse for Raider fans to imbibe their favorite beverages in celebration. JaMarcus Russell likely said thank you a few times when he heard the news. Not only does this move hurt the hated Chiefs, it also increases the trade value of the Raiders pick. L-Dizzle explains the benefits to the Raider Nation of this move.
Allen Trade increases trade value of Raiders #4 pick.
By Ldizzle
Special to Thoughts from the Dark Side
The trade of DE Jared Allen to the Vikings is official and this is good news for the Raiders draft plans. The Chiefs now have the #5 pick and the #17 pick. And This means that if Chris Long isn't there and Al wants to trade out of that spot he will have a few more suiters. The reason being that the Chiefs need a lot of things and with two picks in the first round it is hard to say which they will go for first but it could very well be Vernon Gholston. Gholston is high on a lot of team's draft boards including the Jets and Patriots . A trade down to either of these spots would garner the Raiders a 2nd or 3rd round pick and still allow them to get a guy like Sedrick Ellis if they so choose. Not only that but if the Raiders can aid in keeping the Chiefs from getting their guy at #5 by trading out of that spot, that would be gravy too.
And even if there are teams that don't have their eye on Gholston, the uncertainty of who the Chiefs will choose with the #5 pick will bring a few more suiters and that much competition can only be a good thing. If the Raiders were to trade lower than the Patriots at #7 the team is pretty much guaranteed an additional 2nd round pick in trade for the #4. Either way you look at it, the Raiders will get Chris Long, or two first day picks, one of which could still be high enough to get a top flight player with immediate impact. Never thought I would say this but: Thanks Kansas City.
L-Dizzle is a regular reader and contributer to Thoughts from the Dark Side. If you would like to contribute an article, please send me an email at mvnraider at yahoo.com.
Discussion
54 Comments on "Jarred Allen trade increases trade value of the Raiders draft pick: Thoughts from a Reader's Side"
#1
Posted by the510, April 23, 2008 12:02 AM
LDizzle -
Are you the same guy who posts on scratchlive.net as well? I recognize your name,
J
#2
Posted by eks, April 23, 2008 12:16 AM
If long goes #2 then Dorsey definitely goes #3. Which means Gholston, Mcfadden are left to choose from who are rated this high. What do you do? Maybe trade down, or draft Ellis at #4? I think the only way Oakland has a chance at Long is if the Rams choose Dorsey. I don't think the Raiders have a chance at Dorsey because the Falcons want him at #3. And if the falcons don't take him at #3, then that probably means they traded out for someone like the Saints who wanted him. I personally would rather have Dorsey instead of long but would not be disappointed with either player.
#3
Posted by Raider Till Death!, April 23, 2008 12:28 AM
I would be absolulty thrilled if Chris comes to reemerge the Long days back in Oakland but as much as I love this possibilty, I have to ask that will his arrival help the Run D any bit. Yeah, we will have a hell of pass rush and with the secondary already loaded with stars, I have to say that the run D remains the only problem. Even Gholston's coming troubles me as I am just not sure that a DE will help our case. besides I feel that Atlanta isnt pssing on Long if he gets to No.3. People say that Matt Ryan will be the one coming to them but I ask you all that with the 2 consecutive 2nd round picks and a second round stacked with pretty polished QBs, do you really think that they will stick with Ryan?
f Chris and Dorsey are gone, I say trade Down! It will give us more picks to fill more holes. I would a trade with the Jets or Pats (jets preferably because if a second round pick is involved we will get a high one).
#4
Posted by Jarred Allen Trade increses the trade value of the Raiders pick - Oakland Raiders Forum | Message Bo, April 23, 2008 12:32 AM
[...] Allen Trade increses the trade value of the Raiders pick Thoughts from the Dark Side | MVN - an Oakland Raiders blog ª Blog Archive ª Jarred Allen trade incr... __________________ "While there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a [...]
#5
Posted by mvh, April 23, 2008 12:34 AM
It may affect our picks value, but it also lets Kwame Harris' Oakland detractors breathe a little easier. at least for a couple of Division games.
#6
Posted by deployed chiefs fan, April 23, 2008 12:39 AM
i was born into chiefs-raiders rivalry and have been blessed to have the hatred that goes with it(work,store or just plain internet) with that said thanks for being there to hate and i'm sure vice-versa. the bolts and the donkeys are hated as well but i make sure i catch all raiders games. as far as draft day i think howie long was a beast in his playing days but his son(chris) just does not look as dominant. i'm concerned that dorsey is 1 injury away from career ending. i flat out don't like ryan from b.c.(reminds of pennington from jets. i'd love to draft mcfadden but i think he'd have the same numbers i would have behind our line. just really started thinkin bout the gohlston kid from ohio state(will start doing research on him). the guy i as well as k.c. wanted was jake long but since that ain't going to happen i'd like to see them trade down if possible and try to get the cb from philly(shepard) or washington from you guys(that'll never happen though). so once again thank the lord for making raider fans to hate cause we'll both be the bottom again i just hope we get to top before you guys do.
#7
Posted by RaiderKC, April 23, 2008 12:46 AM
NCRaider,
I agree that Al is working up a trade to package some guys, but you forgot we can include Madsen, O'Neal and Fargas into the mix. If Al picks McFadden there is no need for Fargas/Rhodes and/or Jordan with Bush 100%. Hopefully the Rams p/u Long (Long and Carriker side by side, ouch!). Trade some guys to p/u at least a 2nd, 3rd and 5th round picks. Go RB, DT, OT, WR, LB, RB, QB, DL....
#8
Posted by Patrick Patterson, April 23, 2008 12:48 AM
Great take bro. Gland you are part of the Thonghts from the Dark Side team.
#9
Posted by eks, April 23, 2008 12:54 AM
What if C.Long and Mcfadden are there for oakland at #4. Everyone knows Al Davis may want Mcfadden. So my question to all is will he take Mcfadden over C.Long and risk Long going to K.C? Ouch.
#10
Posted by sactoraider, April 23, 2008 2:03 AM
I think that would be the best thing for the raiders to do if Chris Long is gone at number 4. Trade down and pick Ellis and then go get a WR, DE, or OT..still a lot of quality players left in the second round.
#11
Posted by Patrick Patterson, April 23, 2008 2:06 AM
If Chris Long is gone I would love a trade down.
#12
Posted by Bill, April 23, 2008 3:19 AM
I just don't see alot of indivision tradeing. I've heard NO and the Rams, I've heard Jets and the Pats. Now Raiders and the Chiefs........
Not going to happen.
#13
Posted by Patrick Patterson, April 23, 2008 3:35 AM
No way the Raiders and Chiefs trade, but someone may want to jump the Chiefs.
#14
Posted by Rolni, April 23, 2008 4:16 AM
If C.Long is off the board we should trade down somewhere in the top 10...we could get Clady or Williams(i want him more) and then Lawrence Jackson(a super DE) in the 2nd!!!
in the 3rd(what we got for Fabian) we could get a run stopping DT(Marcus,Bryant,Pressley) or a C(Pollack,Justice) in the 4th get the C or DT(depending on the 3rd pick)!!
Later round we should get an SLBproject,an OT and a WR...
If we could get a 5th(for Jordan+Stu or other way...) i would like Tony Hills or Pedro Sosa with that pick!
#15
Posted by Anthony, April 23, 2008 5:29 AM
Patrick -- "If Chris Long is gone I would love a trade down."
You and me both, dude. Trade to 6, see if you can drop to 9 or so, or take my "one-note sales pitch" guy: Branden Albert.
#16
Posted by CanadaRaider, April 23, 2008 5:46 AM
It may add value, but let's now look at this possible scenario...the Chefs trading with Atlanta to get the 3rd pick, Atlanta still gets QB Ryan at the 5th pick and the Chefs gobble up Raiders projected pick at #4. The Chefs definitely have bargaining power with those picks they acquired from the Vikes so anything is possible now.
I'm hoping C.Long goes to the Raiders, but if the Chefs do trade up to get Howie's kid, I'm not so sure I'd like that scenario. That's one pick that would eventually haunt us down the road and KC would love to stir the pot on draft day.
#17
Posted by jaftermath, April 23, 2008 6:23 AM
In the past 10 years, have the Raiders ever traded down? It's not gonna happen. The Raiders will draft one the following, Gholston, Mcfadden, or Long.
#18
Posted by Cleveland Raider, April 23, 2008 6:42 AM
Glenn Dorsey is a warrior I would love to see the Raiders pick up, but I think the Rams will snatch him. Chris Long is my second choice, then trade down if both are unavailable. The more picks the better with so many holes to fill. By the way, is it Saturday yet???
#19
Posted by pat, April 23, 2008 6:59 AM
Chris Long is going #2 and why are you so convinced the Raiders will take Long, just because his father was a Raider. Dorsey is better.
#20
Posted by Rob Calonge, April 23, 2008 7:02 AM
jaftermath - Last year the Raiders traded down in the second round and picked Zach Miller. The pick they traded was essentially a first rounder since they traded the 33rd pick of the draft for the 38th.
As far as trading in the first round, I wouldn't put anything past Davis. If he thinks it's the best option, he'll do it and blame Kiffin for it later.
#21
Posted by Al´s imaginary friend, April 23, 2008 7:31 AM
SI's Don Banks says we wont pick Chris Long because there's too much bad blood between Howie and Al... Any truth to this?
#22
Posted by billyb, April 23, 2008 7:38 AM
Sorry, unfortunately the Allen trade is not good for the Raiders. K.C. can easily stack their picks in a trade and get C. Long or anybody thay think will tick Al off.
#23
Posted by angelodebo, April 23, 2008 7:50 AM
I think the BEST possible events on draft day for the Raiders are this:
Trade #4 to the Jets/Patriots (Both want Gholston) and pick up a 2nd or 3rd/4th round pick. With pick #6 or #7 the Raiders trade that pick to Cincy who are dying to draft Ellis.
That would leave the Raiders with the #9 (DE Derrick Harvey, DE Phillip Merling) and numerous picks in the 2nd and 3rd round that can be used to strengthen both the offensive and defensive line.
This is best case draft day (in my eyes anyway).
#24
Posted by Brian, April 23, 2008 8:18 AM
If Long is gone, trade down and pick up the best DT/DE & OL. A no brainer. Trade down and get more picks.
#25
Posted by Thomas, April 23, 2008 8:55 AM
Is everyone talking about the same NFL? You know, the one with a salary cap? Long term success in the NFL is accomplished through the draft. Was it McShay that evaluated teams and found that the most successful teams had the most picks? On top of all that, the Chefs have been around a long time. They are not going to do something, if they can help it, that benefits the Raiders. What I see is that the Chefs picked up a three quality picks, offloading a big salary cap hit and will get a top five pick if they do nothing else. That is bad for the Chefs? If the Falcons pick Ryan, that means they will get Long, Dorsey or McFadden if they do nothing with the Vike's picks.
No, it is not good for the Raiders. It is good for the Chefs which means it is bad for the Raiders.
#26
Posted by inoeverything, April 23, 2008 9:03 AM
(shaking my head) sweet jesus we do not need Chad johnson or DMAC!!! We need to build this team from the trenches out. We don't need to draft a GD lindbacker either you boobs.OT or die a slow painful death...
#27
Posted by OGKUSH, April 23, 2008 9:12 AM
our O-line was ranked 6th place the last half of the season last year, you think because its because of sims and newberry? i think not. they were gettin old and couldnt block as well. ITS ALL ABOUT THE COACHING! Tom Cable is the mad scientist for the raidersand he will get it done this upcoming season for our O-line, the kid will be protected at all costs. we need a homerun hitter to make russell better, or another great ppass rusher to pressure QB's to make stupid throws for our allstar D-backs to make good plays. so i agree with people when they say McFadden, Gholston, or Long. that's the way its goin down, 100% guarranteed.
#28
Posted by Ryan Brown, April 23, 2008 9:27 AM
Not to burst your bubble - but the Chiefs are drafting on Saturday with the priority of helping their team, not sticking it to the Oakland Raiders.
I know that Raider Nation practically patented the "Everyone's against us!" attitude, but I will guess (hope, actually) that Carl Peterson and Herm Edwards are making their selections to improve the Chiefs - not make Al Davis turn over in his grave.
(Wait...Al's not dead? Fascinating...)
Go Chiefs! Pardon me while I go bury my #69 Chiefs jersey and play Taps to honor Jared Allen.
RB
#29
Posted by Raiderskev25, April 23, 2008 9:34 AM
I think it was a good thing for the Raiders. The Chiefs could be in trouble if DE Long goes 2nd to the Rams. They will have to be very aggressive come draft day. They will have to assuredly move up to the 2nd pick to get DE Long whom I believe is #1 on their list now. But there's other teams looking to trade up into that spot. I'm hoping DE Long goes 2nd to the Rams, cuz that means Atlanta would definetly draft DT Dorsey and wouldn't trade the pick. Then at #4 we have the power to do what we want. Mcfadden, Gholston, Sedrick Ellis is still on the board at this point. So what do we do? 1) Draft Mcfadden to balance out our offense? 2) Draft Gholston to play LE in our 4-3 scheme? 3) Draft Ellis to shore up our defensive line? Or trade down? Personally, I believe trading down a couple spots and acquiring a 2nd round pick and selecting DT Sedrick Ellis is the best thing we could do. I say this because of the versatility of DT/DE Tommy Kelly brings. Kelly would have no problem playing LE and I think it would be better if he did start at LE. Kelly in my eyes needs to start at LE to off-set the lack of size that DE Burgess brings. Burgess is real strong and is a beast, but he lacks the size to deal with big offensive lineman throughout the game.
#30
Posted by NCRaider, April 23, 2008 9:51 AM
It's not OT for Cable this early. It's got to be DE. We need the big run stuffer at DT which can be had in round 2 or 3. For that, I like Trevor Laws in 2 or Red Bryant in 3. The great pass rushing-run stuffing end (Long or Gholston) won't be found after these two. Long has the best hands and both give Ryan another shot at 3-4 with LB help later (Bruce Davis, anyone?).
We can now shop Washington, Routt, Warren, Sands, Rhodes, and Jordan which I doubt anyone will bite on Jordan and Sands. Once we pick an end, we may also trade Richardson even though he looked good last year. We have enough to pick up a few additional spots. 2, 3, and 5 would be sufficient, though I'd like another 6 or 7 for some of the depth at WR and LB. There are a lot of OLB/DE type deep in this draft for Ryan to play with also and hopefully replace Sam Williams.
1 Chris Long
2 Trevor Laws
3 Xavier Adibi
4 Dexter Jackson or best availble WR
5 Bruce Davis
6 Tony Hills
7 Mike Martinez
7 Fastest WR available (as usual)
#31
Posted by NCRaider, April 23, 2008 9:53 AM
BTW, we will get Johnson eventually, one Lewis gets sick of him sitting out:(
#32
Posted by RaiderRandy, April 23, 2008 10:11 AM
Guys I do not care what the Chiefs do on draft day, it was GREAT news that they traded a proven pro bowl DE in Jared, he is a monster on the pass rush and there is no one on the draft board going to replace his numbers this year and possibly not ever. The Vikings just got dangerous and I am glad they do not play in the AFC West. We still pick in the same spot at #4 and will acquire a stud, so will the Cheifs at #5 but they are attempting to fill big huge shoes.....bottom line we will be a much better team than the Chiefs this year and several to come.....
#33
Posted by loadyz53, April 23, 2008 10:32 AM
It might also force Davis to pick a DE like I hope he does, since KC might now be in the market for one of the top 2 in Long or Gholston. Good "outside the box" article Ldizzle. I know Oakfosho wants McFadden, but I think this move almost forces Al's hand if Long is available, for the sake that it would be awful to see him in a red jersey.
#34
Posted by LDizzle, April 23, 2008 10:34 AM
billy do you really think that KC's draft plans revolve around pissing off Al Davis and the Raiders? And trading two first rounders is WAY too much to move up two spots. Not going to happen. Ryan Brown has it right. Yet again the commenting Chiefs fan makes sense. This can't keep happening.
#35
Posted by RaiderKC, April 23, 2008 1:02 PM
Either way we should get an impact player. I think it is the Nation who feels that Al won't pass on C. Long. I too would hate to see him in KC if he's as good as he seems to be, but I'd hate to see McFadden with the NYJ or NE so he'd stick it to us. KC may take him too, not many are happy here with LJ and with KC having 13 picks, they could fill mos of their needs with the remaining 12 picks. If Ryan is there KC takes him @ #5, but Peterson may trade out of it to get even more picks. His picks haven't been to great with Tank Tyler and the other DL they got last year.
#36
Posted by OC Raider, April 23, 2008 1:54 PM
Would be great to have Long on the team but do you all really think that will happen with all the Def, including DL pickups made in the off season? Seriously at some point you have to address the Offense, which I assume is why they made the off season moved they did. Mcfadden is the only one that fits using this cap related logic.
#37
Posted by D-Fense, April 23, 2008 1:57 PM
First of all the this move was one of the dumbest I have seen by a team in a long time aside from the Raiders number 1 pick last year. You can go for years of drafting and never find a 15 sack guy.
Al Davis is determined to make Dough boy Russel a star he will draft mcfadden to force opposing D-Lines to play run and pass.
#38
Posted by nilbymouth, April 23, 2008 2:17 PM
The chiefs could still very likely go OL with there first pick and get Merling, Groves or maybe even Derrick Harvey with their 1st from the Vikings. My guess is they go with Clady/Albert first then take Brohm with the new 1st, and not worry about DE till the 2nd.
#39
Posted by nilbymouth, April 23, 2008 2:32 PM
Also I really don't think we need another RB. If we were to take one, I would much rather us try and pick up a 3rd round pick (for Washington / Stu /Sands) and draft Kevin Smith
#40
Posted by RaiderKC, April 23, 2008 2:54 PM
Kevin Smith??? Why don't some of you guys realize we had the 6th best rushing off on a last place schedule, very few TD's and Fargas can't catch the ball (crutial in redzone)... Fargas doesn't scare anyone (ran for crap against good defenses) and he's injury prone. This is a business (Just Win Baby!) and loyalty to players is a joke (keeping them around to keep them around). Trade Fargas/Rhodes draft McFadden and keep Bush, with Lee as a back up and our rush off may be #1 by end of '08. Doesn't anyone remember Terrell Davis in Denver? He was a stud RB running behind the same blocking scheme. He'll take a lot of pressure off Russell. Al will trade off some of our extras to land a couple early to mid round picks to get us by for '08 then in the '09 draft p/u a stud DL/DE. Plus, 06/01 cuts are just around the corner.
#41
Posted by azraider37, April 23, 2008 2:55 PM
You can forget about trading Sands. First of all we made his contract too big, and second of all he sucked last year. Stu is going to be hard to get any value out of. He was a third round pick who played like a fifth round pick. With the Chefs trading Allen, I am now 100% on who we need to take......Chris Long! I was sort of on the fence saying that whomever we took would help us out with the fourth pick, but now it has to be Long. I don't think I could stomach seeing Howie's son making probowls and reeking havoc with KC. Howie at Chief's games wearing Chief's gear. I think I'd go blind!!
#42
Posted by RaiderKC, April 23, 2008 3:22 PM
Some are reporting that Rams will take Gholston. Gholston? Why would they feel he's better than Long and I don't think they'll spend their 1st pick on DT since they got Carriker last yr. So, they will go DE with Long, Gholston had to be a smoke screen.
#43
Posted by Billy Cannon's cuz, April 23, 2008 3:53 PM
gholston, Long, McFadden or dorsey is coming home... 10-6????
#44
Posted by Spencer Mills, April 23, 2008 5:43 PM
I have thought long and hard about the ramifications of this pick, and for once I agree with LDizzle.
Also, there is now talk that the Rams are fielding offers, as teams may be willing to make that jump, where they were not with the Dolphins. By taking essentially the cheapest pick at #1, the Fins have left all of the most valuable talent on the board, making the 2nd and 3rd picks that much more valuable as well.
OakFoSho
#45
Posted by raidz, April 23, 2008 5:46 PM
angelodebo,
I don't know what in the world that name is supoosed to mean, sorry. You and me think EXACTLY the same. Trade down or get ellis/long has always been my motto this offseason. As of now everything you said sounds better if ellis/long aren't there. Derrick Harvey is one of the better DEs in this class, maybe better than gholston in the NFL. TRADE DOWN IF LONG/ELLIS AREN'T THERE!!!
#46
Posted by Bill, April 23, 2008 7:57 PM
The Raiders are a business. If Al gets C Long, how many jerseys will he sell?
Al's mandate is C Long!
#47
Posted by pat, April 23, 2008 9:14 PM
I understand what Ldizzle is saying the Chiefs wont draft just to piss Al off. But now they have a need at defensive end and assuming Chris Long is still there i have no doubt in the world if they cant trade down they will take Long in a heart beat, 1st off he's an awesome player that can come in and have an impact right away. And if thats not enough they know taking Long would piss Al off. Plus Long could be sacking Russell for the next 10 to 12 years if we pass him up and the Chiefs take him. Can u pictur Long wearing that ugly ass chiefs uniforms! ewww... i would puke 2 see him playing for the ketchup and mustard guys. The only way we can pass up on Long is if Glenn Dorsey still there, thats my opinion. Dorsey would come in and become a started from day one. I think we would probably end up letting Terdell Sands or Gerarard Warren go if we did pick him.
But i would like for us to trade down and maybe Fabian Washigton and pick up Sedrick Ellis and a high 2nd round pick and maybe a 3rd round pick as well. Like ive said for weeks now in the 2nd round we could pick a guy like Early Doucet who already has played with J.R in college so they know eachother. And in the 3rd round a guy like Redd Bryant at DT who could help us against the run, he looks like a young Ted Washington or maybe a LB like Xavier Adibi to help Morrison and Howard! One more question why do Chiefs fans and Broncos fans comment on our team? Bunch of idiots!
Go RAIDERS!!!
#48
Posted by yayarea_raider, April 23, 2008 10:01 PM
I agree with Pat. Al won't trade with the Chiefs. But hey, if that offer were on the table I'd take it. He did trade with the donks for warren so maybe
#49
Posted by yayarea_raider, April 23, 2008 10:33 PM
I honestly believe Long and Dorsey won't be there at 4. The Rams or Falcons wouldn't pass on Long or Dorsey.
#50
Posted by inonewordraider, April 24, 2008 8:53 AM
who wants to wager the Raiders will have a better record than the Cheifs this year?
#51
Posted by CJ Legend 34, April 24, 2008 9:37 AM
Long, Dorsey will not make it to the 4th round and in the end we will all be happier, once D-Mac is sporting that sweet silver and black. He will look like a black corvette with chrome tiers when he transforms on game day. D-Mac roll out baby!!!
#52
Posted by CJ Legend 34, April 24, 2008 9:47 AM
LOL!!!! You guys are killing me with this whole son of Howie BS. If Howie's son was a running back blessed with a 4.4 forty blessed with D-Macs natural ability you would be saying get him no matter what it takes. He is a great talent, etc. etc. etc. Come on man Howie's kid could not even touch D-Macs jersey, playing two hand touch when turns that corner. D-Mac "08".
#53
Posted by RaiderRandy, April 24, 2008 4:30 PM
I think D-Mac is a talent at his position but Howie's son Chris is rated where he is because he is a great DE and has a huge motor not because of his relation to Howie....sorry my friend D-Mac does not even turn the corner on Long, he squares him and drops him. Stick with the stallions we have and pick up the young stud Long, not just for the great legacy but because the guy is a great player - I actually get to watch that Long jersey squashing QB's again!!! Defense, Defense, Defense!!!
#54
Posted by LDizzle, April 24, 2008 4:42 PM
Raider Till Death that was some retarded sh*t you just said. If you had any clue what you were talking about you would realize that Chris Long is not just a pass rusher but is also quite good at run stopping.
You would also realize that Atlanta has absolutely NO intention of drafting a DE with their pick. They have three good ones right now including the DE that they drafted just last year in the first round. Atlanta needs a lot of things and DE is definately NOT one of them. You may be a "Raider Till Death" but it is clear that most of your brain cells have died long ago.
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