Strength in numbers? We'll see> Posted by Ira Winderman at 7:20:40 AM

            After watching the Heat flail from the 3-point line last season, to the point where Dwyane Wade thought he had as good a chance as anyone to convert, there is something to be said about James Jones.

                                                               

            Still, last time we checked, Marcus Banks was the only point guard under contract, with Mark Blount the only center with a guaranteed deal for next season.

                                             

            What it means is there has to be a shakeout in the middle of the rotation, which now includes:

1. Dwyane Wade
2. Shawn Marion
3. Udonis Haslem
4. Michael Beasley
5. Dorell Wright
6. Daequan Cook
7. James Jones

                                        

            Leave that group intact, and Wright and Cook never get off the bench.

                                          

            So how does it shake out?

• Last October's Ricky Davis trade is accepted as one of the worst in franchise history. He's not coming back, and neither is the first-round pick the Timberwolves likely will cash in next June. Only a sign-and-trade with Davis for a center or point guard salvages the deal.
• With any outside offer above the $2.4 million qualifying offer the Heat has in place, Wright goes down as a draft choice gone wrong, allowed to depart for nothing in return. It's not as if he wasn't given every chance.
• Marion or Haslem open next season elsewhere. The Heat simply cannot afford to have so much at one position and so little at center and point guard. A mega-trade is coming. Count on it. (And, almost assuredly, it will come when I'm on vacation at the end of the month. Offseason? What offseason?)
• Wade will handle the ball plenty, if for no reason other than to get multiple shooters on the court at the same time.
• Small ball will be a most-of-the-time approach, with precious minutes of post play reserved for when Alonzo Mourning is able to offer a few quality minutes after a projected midseason return.

Comments

[The Watcher]

I think what we're doing with Chalmers is offering a 3 year deal, so if he becomes what we hope he will, he gets paid in 2011 instead of forcing our hand in 2010

[The Watcher]

Brandon Jennings is playing in Europe instead of attending college for a one and done year. Pretty interesting...

Posted by: JB (original recipe) | July 09, 2008 at 07:24 AM

More players will start doing that. And hell, if you want the guys to "mature", your posse isn't following you to Madrid.

[Greg]

I really don't want to lose Haslem. I was really hoping that we'd start Haslem and Marion with Beasley coming off the bench

[The Watcher]

Beasley has no business coming off the bench to be honest.

He has to fail as a starter, not succeed off the bench, if you get what I mean

[eddieomaha]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QC-KP4dL98M&feature=related

uh...

[DukeDan]

"Brandon Jennings is playing in Europe instead of attending college for a one and done year. Pretty interesting..."

The reason he is doing that is because he couldnt make the minimum SAT Score to get into Arizona. He couldnt go to School - at least not a big time school. He had three options - prep school for a year, D-League for a year, or Abroad for a year. He chose abroad, however many feel thats a bad decision for an 18 year old. Either way, because of this, his Draft Stock is predicted to go down tremendously from a predicted lottery pick, mostly because of the lack of exposure.

[Greg]

I do know what you mean....but if Beasely starts, you have to bench either Haslem or Marion if they are both still here, and that doesn't seem right either.

( I don't know if Beasely is more of a SF or PF )

[James]

is anyone willing to do a money league for fantasy basketball?

[James]

jennings has an old school high top fade

[The Watcher]

I do know what you mean....but if Beasely starts, you have to bench either Haslem or Marion if they are both still here, and that doesn't seem right either.

( I don't know if Beasely is more of a SF or PF )

Posted by: Greg | July 09, 2008 at 08:10 AM

I mean, he's the 2nd pick, he's a starter, so it's his starting job to lose to Haslem. He doesn't have to win it from Haslem.

That's how I see it.

[The Evil Heater]

jennings has an old school high top fade

****

Kinda like Kid N Play, and Kwame

[surya]

I do know what you mean....but if Beasely starts, you have to bench either Haslem or Marion if they are both still here, and that doesn't seem right either.

( I don't know if Beasely is more of a SF or PF )

Posted by: Greg | July 09, 2008 at 08:10 AM

That's an easy one. He's a PF so that means Haslem should be on the bench where he rightfully belongs if Beasley and him are on the same team. It's as simple as that.

[Greg]

Where's your loyalty Surya...Haslem has been a starter for 3 or 4 years now....he's won a championship...Beasely hasn't done anything yet. I think a coach has to manage psyches as well as talent. Beasely would have an easier time coming off the bench since he's never known starting on an NBA team. You can play him more or during crunch time if he's more effective, but you can't take the starting job from Haslem unless/until Beasely is clearly considerably more effective.

[surya]

Hey Ira, last time I checked Mario Chalmers was looking like our starting PG so it's not as dire as it looks for that position. We could REALLY use a center though. No question about that.

[surya]

Because Haslem is woefully undersized for his position and his offensive game pales in comparison to Beasley's. There is no comparison between the two. I never really saw Haslem as nothing more than a great bench player anyway. He wasn't the reason why we won the championship but he contributed to the cause just like everyone else on the team including Walker and Posey. Where's the loyalty with them?

Beasley has been working exclusively as the PF so far under Erik so it looks like the starting position has already been taken from Haslem. And yes, he is considerably more effective. Haven't you seen this guy play in any sort of game? You don't see how much better he is than Haslem? It's a no brainer.

[eddieomaha]

I think a trade worth considering for both teams is Kleiza and Nene for Marion.

Denver gets the player to push them into legitimate contention and we get two great role players.

Denver:

Carter / Green
Iverson / Atkins
Anthony / Martin
Marion /Najera
Camby / Hunter

Miami:

Chalmers / Banks
Wade / Cook
Kleiza / Jones
Beasley / Haslem
Nene / Zo

[Greg]

No....I've never seen him play, I've just read and heard the hype. I will admit that I have a strong bias towards Haslem that prevents me from being completely objective. It's just the opposite of how I felt about Walker or Eddie Jones. I disliked them no matter what they did, I will always like Haslem no matter what he does ( or doesn't do )

[heat_addict]

Good pick up with James Jones. High-five to Riley.

[heat_addict]

Why doesn't it seem like the Heat's primary concern is at center (where it should be)?

Comparatively to the situation at center, I'm content with Chalmers and Banks rotating at the point. Riley should be all systems go toward a decent (or better) big man.

[eddieomaha]

Denver would need to throw some crap in the trade to make it even out... but I think that would be a huge improvement for both teams.

[Greg]

James:

I'm up for a spot in the fantasy league if it's not a lot of money. I think you'll regret having money involved, but its up to you.

I don't want to give away my strategy or anything...but I hope Chris Webber is still available when I get my first round pick.

[Nbadude]

In enjoyed reading some of the posts here last night, notably the heated debate regarding my boy Rondo between Garrett and Josh/ Watcher/ and other homeys.

FORTUNATELY, the usual voices of reason appeared when poor Garretico (right this time on this subject) was being triple-teamed by some insane claims saying Rajon wasn't very good or hasn't proven anything.

Since I would have little to add to what Greg and nbafan opined, besides my view that DEFENSE **(Steals, Rebounds, Intangibles)** is even more important than Offense, sometimes, which is how Boston won and at which Rondo more than excels, without further due, here are the quotes from reasonable fans: (for contrast and unreasonable views see last blog)

"Posted by: nbafan | July 08, 2008 at 08:12 PM

"hard to rip a young man thats won the nba championship as the starting pg. and the piece that gets missing often, he's still a young player and will continually get better. this is not a finished project. its like rose, these kids have time to grow and add things to their game.

rondo certainly has flaws in his game, had the big three and a hungry unit behind him but obviously he was the right fit for that squad.

often teams played off of him - in the 4 on 5's - and he found ways to get it done. and if he didn't offensively, he found other ways to contribute-defensively with a big steal that often changed the momentum of the game. he did this very often and these are still basketball plays that help teams win games.

i like rondo. smart player and found ways to lead his team and gain the vets respect. very tough to do. its the intangibles that he has, this is what we'll be watching closely with chalmers in his first year and years to come. "

------Voice of Reason #2:

"I know I am getting into this Rondo thing a little late, but what the heck....

He hasn't been tested !?!?!? He started on the biggest stage of the game, the NBA Finals, as a 21 year old kid....and did himself proud in those circumstances. He had some big games and a lot of big moments. As far as people knocking his offense, with the Big 3 on the floor, no one should be shooting but those guys. When you look at point guards in the playoffs he has similar numbers to Jason Kidd and Steve Nash....except he did it for 26 games in the playoffs !!

4th best rebounding point guard...

6th most assists....

3rd most steals....

4th most blocks....

AND...the biggest argument in his favor is that his team won and he played the majority of the minutes. Whatever you want to fault his game for his team didn't need...because they won.

He was under pressure all year because he was an unknown surrounded by superstars..but the kid did alright...he really did.

Posted by: Greg | July 09, 2008 at 12:36 AM

[Greg]

Sledge and Greg: The Voices of Reason !!!

[James]

I think you'll regret having money involved, but its up to you.

Posted by: Greg | July 09, 2008 at 08:54 AM

do you mind explaining that a little further?

[Nbadude]

Say Nbafan is Socrates, Greg is Plato, I'm just the big Aristotle!!

[The Watcher]

Only bigman we SHOULD care about from Denver is Camby

[The Watcher]

So nbadude, why was Boston OUTSCORED with Rondo on the floor??

[eddieomaha]

Camby is 43.

[James]

Rondo was better than I expected. However, when the playoffs came around that is when weaknesses were exposed. It became very obvious that the weakness for the celts was Rondo. It doesn't mean he sucks, but it just means that he is not elite and not as good as I thought that maybe he had become during the season.

[James]

if the Hawks could have gotten anything from Bibby on the road..then the Celts would have been eliminated in the first round. Bibby just couldn't take advantage of Rondo for some reason..and it is not because of ROndo's defense either...the opportunities were definitely there..he just shot horribly in boston

[JB (original recipe)]

"Leave that group intact, and Wright and Cook never get off the bench."

Am I the only one who doesn't see a problem with that?

[The Watcher]

Camby is 43.

Posted by: eddieomaha | July 09, 2008 at 09:08 AM

and Nene has played 81 games total over the last 3 years and doesn't have his left nut

That's a bad move Eddie. If he contributed anything significant last year I would have been more willing to take a chance

[JB (original recipe)]

Oh boy... More Rajon Rando discussions. How exciting!

[JB (original recipe)]

Who is realistically available at the center position. Additionally, they've got to be good enough that it's worth paying Blount $8 million to ride the bench because I don't think any team is going to take him in a trade.

[JB (original recipe)]

Also, there's no way Beasley is coming off the bench.

[heat_addict]

Man, poor Billy Crystal and the Clippers. They really got the sh*t end of the stick. Hopefully they can steal Okafor/Josh Smith and make our division a little easier.

[Greg]

James: Money complicates everything. Being the league administrator is enough of a hassle for ou I would think. Trying to get everyone to mail you some money, and then distribute it at the end, listening to whiners saying something was fair, and I got screwed, wah wah wah.....whatever fun is left will be sucked out like the bottom of a fat kids slurpee on a hot summer day.

[jj]

marion and banks for
camby,jr smith and chucky atkins. all come of books 4 2010 and salaries work 4 a trade,and clear banks contract 4 2010.
chalmers/atkins/quinn
wade/cook
j jones/wright
beasley/haslem
camby/zo/alexander

we have great d, 3pt shooters,and our own jordan if healthy.our depth is pretty solid.top 3 seed.wade can kick out to jones chalmers and beas for 3s.zo and camby control the paint.wade and chalmers the perimeter d and steals.nice balanced team and can still get a bosh in 2010 to take cambys spot.
ur thoughts fellow heaters
.

[Greg]

Celts playoff record when Rondo played over 30 minutes: 11-4

when he played under 30: 5-6

CASE CLOSED !!!

[jj]

this is aheat blog who cares about bleeping rondo enough already

[jj]

any better deals 4 marion who is on the way out.atkins is a good vet to teach chalmers the ropes.

[billyb522god]

Otherwise, I think Wade-Beasley-Marion is being extremely underrated by people.

I AGREE STRONGLY....... IF BEASLEY CAN BE AS GOOD AS 2ND YEAR AMARE THAN I THINK WADE-MARION-BEASLEY COULD BE BETTER THAN THE 04-05 VERSION OF NASH-MARION-AMARE

CHALMERS AND BANKS MAKES US STRONG DEFENSIVELY AND 3PT SHOOTING AT POINTGUARD, PLUS ATHLETICISM AND A BIT OF PLAYMAKING AND LOT OF QUICKNESS

PHILLY IS GONNA BE VERY VERY GOOD NEXT YEAR.

JAMES JONES IS A GREAT PICKUP!!!!

HATE TO SAY IT BUT KWAME BROWN IS GONNA BE OUR STARTING CENTER WIT ZO BAKCING HIM UP NEXT YEAR.

DONT TRADE MARION!!!!!

[jj]

camby avg 11pts 3.5 blocks and 12 boards,ill take that4 just 2 years then dump him

[billyb522god]

WE WILL NEVER FIND A BETTER 3RD PLAYER TO A HEALTHY INSIDE/OUT WADE AND BEASLEY DUO.

EVER.

[jj]

marion is already packin

[billyb522god]

Sorry about those caps.

I really like this lineup to fight for a 4 or 5 seed and win between 46-52 games.

Kwame/Zo/Blount
Beasley/Haslem
Marion/Jones/Wright
Wade/Cook
Chalmers/Banks (or vice-versa)

Haslem can sub in for Marion and have Beasley slide to 3 too.

J Jones is a great shooter.

[billyb522god]

No hes not, Marion isnt going anywhere.

Riley knows it takes 3 in todays nba and he knows you need a lockdown defender and he knows you need versatility.

He has the perfect 3rd option (Marion) and lockdown defender, and perfect 1st option (Wade)...... inside presence is Beasley which will take a bit of time to be perfect 2nd option as he is only 19 years old..... but we have great versatility also.

[heat_addict]

The problem with trading Marion is in any given trade scenario, you'll always be getting too little or giving too much. At least when trying to fill our needs (center or point guard).

Haslem + Cook for Camby?

[billyb522god]

I wouldve loved to have Haslem as the backup that plays 24 minutes a night subbing in for both Marion and Beasley.

that solidifies our 3/4 spots completely with 96 minutes between the 3 of them.

You can play any combination of them.

4/3
Beasley/Marion
or Haslem/Marion
or Haslem/Beasley

[Nbadude]

James, Rondo did an overall great job at the point, all season long and all the way the the Championship. Period.

1/ Starting point guard to help earn the best regular season record in the league. Try that with a mediocre point guard. Not even Detroit with Chauncey..

2/ Excelent, suffocating DEFENSE. Especially in the playoffs. What won it for Boston? Defense, Steals (3rd in the entire league, Rondo's specialty: speed and anticipation, i.e. Bbal IQ thru the roof for his age),,,, Rebounds: exceptional at it, 4th in the entire league at 6.1"), 4th in blocks, 6th in assists with a Superb A/TOo ratio (a point guard's MAIN JOB: making good decisions with the ball, pushing the tempo or not, not turning it over.),,,,,and all the INTANGIBLES a good defender brings, constant pressure on other guards, forcing turn-overs and bad decisions from opposing point guards, blocking lanes, etc, etc, etc.

What else do you want from a young point guard??, 25ppg at 50%? His shooting % was adecuate, even had a couple crucial 20pt games in the playoffs that basicaly won the game for his team.

Again, he's not J.Kidd, Chauncey or Nash or Paul,,, yet, but he could come close to that. And he's already DAMN good, IF you value DEFENSE, A/TO ratio's on a fast as hell point guard who steals, rebounds and makes good decisions, proven already at top pressure, at the highest of Stages: winning it all as a Starter point guard. Among the 5 most improved this year, he might be among the 5 elite in a couple more years, in the entire league. Just might, when Chauncey, Kidd and Nash decline, you'll have Paul, Deron, etc. and maybe Rondo, as his shooting can only continue to improve. (not too bad already) Peace out, go JJ

[Greg]

Rondo's Playing Time W-L

>30 11-4
35 7-1
<35 9-9

[jj]

marion and banks for
camby,jr smith and chucky atkins. all come of books 4 2010 and salaries work 4 a trade,and clear banks contract 4 2010.

chalmers/atkins/quinn
wade/jr smith/cook
j jones/wright
beasley/haslem
camby/zo/alexander

we have great d, 3pt shooters,and our own jordan if healthy.our depth is pretty solid.top 3 seed.wade can kick out to jones chalmers and beas for 3s.zo and camby control the paint.wade and chalmers the perimeter d and steals.nice balanced team and can still get a bosh in 2010 to take cambys spot.
ur thoughts fellow heaters
.
THAT WOULD KILL YOUR TEAM EDDIE.CAMBY WOULD MAKE KWAME HIS BITCH

[billyb522god]

I really think KWame is gonna be starting at center for us.

Hate to say it.

I think he could do solid for us too though under Zo's wing and with a leader like Wade (raises his confidence, builds him up) rather tahn a leader like Kobe (Yells at him, brutal to him)........ Kwame is soft he needs a guy that builds him up not yells at him.

Zo will turn him into a great defender/banger/enforcer/rebounder in the lowpost and he could run the court with Wade/Marion/Beasley as Kwame is pretty athletic and fast for a center.

[jj]

WHO CARES ABOUT RONDO
WHO CARES ABOUT RONDO
WHO CARES ABOUT RONDO
WHO CARES ABOUT RONDO
WHO CARES ABOUT RONDO
WHO CARES ABOUT RONDO
WHO CARES ABOUT RONDO
WHO CARES ABOUT RONDO
WHO CARES ABOUT RONDO
WHO CARES ABOUT RONDO
WHO CARES ABOUT RONDO
WHO CARES ABOUT RONDO
WHO CARES ABOUT RONDO
WHO CARES ABOUT RONDO
WHO CARES ABOUT RONDO
WHO CARES ABOUT RONDO
WHO CARES ABOUT RONDO
WHO CARES ABOUT RONDO
WHO CARES ABOUT RONDO
WHO CARES ABOUT RONDO
WHO CARES ABOUT RONDO
WHO CARES ABOUT RONDO
WHO CARES ABOUT RONDO
WHO CARES ABOUT RONDO
WHO CARES ABOUT RONDO
WHO CARES ABOUT RONDO

[billyb522god]

only for one year. Unless he improves drastically.

JJ we DONT have great d with that lineup.

our d would be pathetic actually, we have no primary defender. The Kobes and Lebrons of the world would light us up with great ease. Not to mentin the Dirks and Gasols and Garnetts that will eat Beasley for lunch as Camby is a help defender that needs to anchor our defense.

[jj]

MARION IS LONG GONE

[billyb522god]

J Jones is solid, but Wade would have to guard other teams best player alot of the time which he is very capable of when healthy but we dont want him to have to do that.

KEEP MARION!

We can get a center for Haslem, which would be MUCH BETTER for us as we wouldnt lose our perfect 3rd man and allstar small forward.

[Greg]

yeah...right...its a Heat blog...sorry for going off topic.

perhaps I should instead make up random trades and then figure out our rotations and how many points each guys is going to score.....or discuss music (ballads are hip hop !?!? what planet are you on ??)....or I could cut and paste entire articles here, or discuss the 'Canes, Dolphins or freaking Tour de France....

( softly humming "We Are The World )

can't we all just get along ?

[billyb522god]

Marion DEFINITELY isnt going anywhere.

Pat Riley is ALOT smarter than that, and you already know it.

[Dom]

OKAFOR--------WE all think a big trade is coming. He is restricted. Maybe? Somehow? Haslem and Marion in a 3 team trade where we get okafor and someone else from another team, ?? Isnt Okafor almost a younger ZO? Riley is cooking up something and what other Center is worth SHAWN MARION??? Isnt is possible and wouldnt it be the perfect fit for what we need. OKAFOR!!!!!!!!!

[billyb522god]

We should get Ronny turiaf at center.

[billyb522god]

okafor is a power forward.

He is FAR from a younger zo, offensively or defensively not even close.

[jj]

we already tried to sign him to an extension and he wanted more than riley is gonna give,and that price will be higher next year cuz of the rules it will have to be around 14 mil which we wont pay 4 someone who cant create their own shot and whole game relies on speed and quickness which is only decreasing every year cuz hes getting old

[heat_addict]

We better not sign David Padgett, he's been playing like crap at SL.

[billyb522god]

Younger Zo- 25 and 14 a night with Defensive Player of the year level defense. Best player on 60 win team/conference finalist as a all-nba center.

Okafor- 13 and 11 a night with average defense, 4th best player on 24 win lottery team that has never made the playoffs in his career as an above-average power forward.

[James]

Posted by: Greg | July 09, 2008 at 09:24 AM

greg..you have to pay to join the league and they handle all the money, not me

[heat_addict]

"We should get Ronny turiaf at center."

Not with Golden State overpaying for him.

[Nbadude]

Tour de France, now THAT's what's happening now, thanks for the reminder Greg. Now that my compatriots from th All mighty Spain detroyed the fiel in Soccer and Tennis, and are invading the NBA, we shall win again in France. Vamos!!

[billyb522god]

JJ it is GOOD that he cant create his own shot (He actually can a bit, but thats besides the point).

That way he wont take the ball out of our 2 best players hands and the defense has to worry about him on the move without the ball (best in nba at it) while also worrying about guarding Wade or Beasley (whoever has ball at that time).

That is a GREAT WEAPON. Marion can be an 18 ppg scorer for us without EVER taking the ball out of Wade or Beasleys hands!!!!

[DSKZ]

Yeah what is up with the Rondo stuff? I think you just like typing his name...

Anyways I cant believe Elton Brand did LA like that.. unbelievable. Sixers are looking to be formidable but their backcourt is still meh... they might be able to sigh a few guys still though.

If Shawn Marion did that to us it wouldnt be so bad because we would then have capspace to sign a replacement...

Now is it it myth or fact that if Marion stays the Heat are obligated to give him a raise? That would handcuff this franchise, probably.

[jj]

haslem cant bring us as much as marion ,WHO WONT BE HERE NEXT YEAR,hopefully riley pulls of some blockbuster with him.haslem has value to us hes cheap and can play 4 and 5,great backup and spot starter

[billyb522god]

I agree Marion is getting older tho and his athleticism will decrease.

He is 29, we want him til hes about 33 or 34 optimally.

[jj]

id love okafor, hes young and riminds me of early zo,great d no offense yet.he is injury concern though

[heat_addict]

If Marion opted out, he'd be enjoying a ridiculously inflated offer sheet from the Warriors right now, and we'd have the money to sign Smith and/or Okafor.

[billyb522god]

Haslem has NOWHERE NEAR as much value as Marion.

Marion can play 2/3/4 and is our allstar starting small forward.

He scores 18 a night wihtout one play ran for him and gives us great versatility, wont take ball out of Beasley or Wades hands and is graet playing off of them.

Best rebounding small forward in nba history, our break will be LIGHTNING with him and Wade and Beasley running it.....

and most importantly he will guard the other teams best player and lock down every night.

Haslem is our backup PF to Michael Beasley. He is too short to play center. He'll get 10 minutes a night if he's lucky as Beasley will play 38 at least.

[jj]

sorry greg lets go back to rondo talk that was so entertaining.lol

[billyb522god]

You must not remember early zo then.

Cuz early Zo was a very good offensive player. 22 points per game on 55% field goals. He was dominant on offense before his kidney.

And Zo was the best defensive center in the NBA.

okafor is above average on defense as a power forward. Not great.

[billyb522god]

Smith or Okafor wouldnt be as good for us as Marion is.

[Adam]

Would you guys trade Marion for a Chris Kaman? Obviously it would take some filler, but, I think the Clippers are going to have to go to a more run and gun offense.

[Greg]

James...if they handle the money I'd like to retract all my previous statements.

[billyb522god]

I'd rather have

Chalmers/Banks
Wade/Cook
Marion/Jones/Wright
Beasley/Haslem/Blount
Kwame/Zo

then

Chalmers/Banks
Wade/Cook
Jones/Wright
Beasley/Haslem/Blount
Okafor/Zo

[jj]

dskz
not a raise but can only decrease from 17 mil by a certain %.small %

[billyb522god]

i owuldnt trade him for Kaman either.

Beasley is good for us in the lowpost as that option for us on offense.

We just need a defensive center, a banger like a Kendrick Perkins or Brendan Haywood type.

our offensive lowpost presence is at PF in Beasley.

Marion is perfect 3rd banana on both ends in all ways.

[billyb522god]

DWYANE WADE ON FIRST TAKE!!!

[jj]

billy i agree but if we can get okafer and thats what riley thinks is his best option this or next year when marion comes off the books then hell do it

[Adam]

Forget Marion, trade him tomorrow, he's gone next season anyways.

[billyb522god]

Wade looks thinner.

GREAT STUFF!

[Greg]

Marion has 2 different kinds of value. He has value as a talented player, AND he has value as en expiring contract. Unfortunately we can't take advantage of both of those. We have to either trade him or use him but we can't do both.

[billyb522god]

Marion off the books next season is of great value for us anyways!!!!

[billyb522god]

I think we would be CRAZY to trade Marion.

[jj]

dont get me wrong i like marion with wade and beasley, but cause of the rules were not going to sign an aging player who relies on speed to a 4 to 5 year extension avg 14-15 mill a year.

[Greg]

I'd rather have Antione Walker back here than Kwame, and I'd be willing to bet that Riley won't go anywhere near Kwame, not even if he played for the minimum and offered to mow Riley's lawn...which of course he's too lazy to do anyway.

[jj]

so if riley thinks he can trade 4 someone better than using cap space next year on free agent(who we wont be guaranteed to get)hell do it

[Greg]

Can I go off on an anti-Kwame rant...or will that be as well recieved as my pro-Rondo tirade ??

[jj]

riles wants money 4 2010 for a young stud so he wont tie up 14 mil to marion.

[billyb522god]

Kwame/Zo/Blount
Beasley/Haslem/Blount
Marion/Jones/Wright
Wade/Cook
Chalmers/Banks

That can win 50 games if they come together early overseas in training camp.

definitely.

Philly, Boston, Cleveland, Orlando and Detroit are the 5 super-tough teams.

especially if Cleveland gets michael redd as i heard theyre trying to.

Washington and Toronto is close to that. Atlanta will be better.

We can contend for a 4 seed. WE CAN if Wade ishealthy and back to normal and Kwame is in shappe and plays defense and Beasley is who we think he is plus Marion in contract year.

[DSKZ]

The thing about Marion is that he is everything that embodies a Pat Riley team.

He hustles relentlessly, he plays D, he is unselfish...

He is like Keith Askins on steroids.

[billyb522god]

Oh definitely not JJ i agree.

But Marion 17 mil off the books next summer is great for us too!

[jj]

thats fine greg.lol

[DSKZ]

An anti-Kwame rant at least would be relevant.

[billyb522god]

And yes I agree about Kwame. But he'll be aight.

[jj]

riley has never steered us wrong with big time trades so one might be coming and i trust him

[jj]

we cant resign marion so riley is gonna get the best value 4 him.either this year(trade) or next(fa).

[Adam]

Rondo swallows

[pacquaio]

lets assess the situation...this is what we have ( in order of personal preference of staying on our opening night roster)

WADE
BEASLEY
MARION
CHALMERS
HASLEM
COOK
ZO
WRIGHT
DAVIS
QUINN
and a bunch of names i dont even remember...now, here's the deal:
1. Signing James Jones
If reports are true, then this is certainly a good pick up for the Heat...he will be a POSEY type player, a wingman who can hit the 3(with better accuracy), plays tough D and has better athleticism.
2. what does this leaves us? I relly think that RILEY has something up his sleeves...cooking up something for a big trade to address out major concerns (vet Pg until CHALMERS assume that post and a defensive minded C) I personally think that MARION could net us 2 quality players in return (even 1 is good with probably a first round pick in '09 to make up for the lost pick in that Davis trade)
3. If that happens, then WRIGHT "might"play a major role off the bench to back up JONES. we can also have BEASLEY pick some time off at 3 should we still have HASLEM at that time ( i'd rather have WRIGHT play back up rather than DAVIS. DORREL should play better with the type of players we have on the team, all he has to do is to defend, rebound and to be SMART, not to mention that he is a kind of player that Spoelstra likes)

Now this leaves us with a line up of:

PG from MARION trade/CHALMERS
WADE/COOK
JONES/WRIGHT
HASLEM/back up PF
C from MARION trade/ZO

additional pieces maybe made based on what will transpire with the MARION trade...If we can net a quality C with the trade, then we focus on PG and vice versa...I personally think that MARION will net us better returns that HASLEM so i have him stay in the line up....

Still, Im excited for the 09 season...we should be contender and a major turn around is in the books....

[Adam]

Hey pacquaio, sometimes, saying less is more, I am sure most just skipped right over your novel.

[jj]

see were im comin from billy and dskz. i love marion too,but he has no long term value to us.riley is gonna make sure dwade has a great team by 2010 with cap space to sign him and a bosh,amare,lebron,ect ect.that way wade wont even think about going to chitown,cuz he will be all chicago has and well have the beas and a max contract player

[jj]

see now this is good talk.not is rondo great or rondo sucks.

[JB (original recipe)]

Would you guys trade Marion for a Chris Kaman? Obviously it would take some filler, but, I think the Clippers are going to have to go to a more run and gun offense.

Posted by: Adam | July 09, 2008 at 09:51 AM

I think with the way the roster stands the Heat would have to do it... I'd say you could work in a sign and trade with Maggette, but he's noth worth $10 million.

[Adam]

Maggette is signing with the Warriors.

[DSKZ]

If we were to trade Marion, the Clippers would probably be interested...they need players.

[The Watcher]

Charlotte could panic with the Okafor situation.

Clips are def in the bidding with Brand bolting for nothing and Cats are cheap.

A Marion/Cook/future 1st for Okafor(13mil)/Felton/filler

[The Watcher]

maybe send them Haslem instead of Cook

[Greg]

Kwame skips practices and games, argues with his coaches, threatens to hit team mates, gets into legal trouble, and is just plain lazy. He would go against everything Riley stands for. I'd bet my last dollar that Riley wouldn't even take a call from Kwame's agent. Has there ever been another #1 pick who has played for 5 teams in 9 years ?? His last 3 years he played 15, 23, and 41 games per year.....and he's only getting older.

KWAME WILL NEVER PLAY FOR THE HEAT WHILE RILEY IS HERE. Mark my words.

[Greg]

I think I can keep 2 rants going at one time...so..why is everyone mad at Elton Brand for acceting a higher offer from another team. Players do that all the time but Brand is taking heat for it. I don't get it.

[DSKZ]

What would you all see as an ideal contract to sign Marion to?

3 years at 13 mil?

NBA salaries are being pushed up again as you can see with the signings of Diop and James.

13 mil is the equivalent to 10 mil 2-3 years ago.

Bad economy and everything.

Which makes Marion at 14 mil seem more realistic.

Cap should be going up soon too.

[Ashlov]

I like pie.

[DSKZ]

i mean 13 mil.

[DSKZ]

Brand is catching heat because he was going to take less so the Clippers could contend but then backed out. The Baron went to LA to play with Brand and then Brand bolted.

Its Brand's perogative, but I dont think he is going to be liked in LA much longer, thats for sure.

[DSKZ]

ok i gotta go find some work. See you all, later.

[The Watcher]

and why the hell would Warriors sign Turiaf??

they drafted 2 pf's in a row with Harrington on the books

[pacquaio]

Hey pacquaio, sometimes, saying less is more, I am sure most just skipped right over your novel.

Posted by: Adam | July 09, 2008 at 10:07 AM
___________________________

Oh really ADAm???yeah I noticed your the only one who made a comment on my "novel", meaning ur the only one who read it...im happy now that i wasted a couple minutes of ur time...last laugh on me....

[Adam]

no man, skipped right over it, and looked for the person's name on who wrote it.

[JB (original recipe)]

Maggette is signing with the Warriors.

Posted by: Adam | July 09, 2008 at 10:21 AM

I know... isn't it for 5 years @ $10 million? I don't know if he's really worth that. But, it's too bad the Heat couldn't work out Kaman/Maggette for Marion/Haslem/whatever.

[Greg]

I wish the poster's name was before the post. It would make it a lot easier to be selective about who you read and who you skip.

[Greg]

Anyone else really happy with the effort Ira is putting in during the offseason ?

Here's the sport's editors email address if you want to send along an "attaboy"

klaughlin@sun-sentinel.com

[JB (original recipe)]

Not really... that Ethan guy blogs live from the Orlando Summer league. All the good posters are just on this blog.

[Greg]

That's because "that Ethan guy" is a Sports Columnist....he doesn't have an offseason. Ira is a Heat Columnist and reporter. This is supposed to be his off season.

[pacquaio]

skipped over it Adam???com'on...i dont belive u...ur nose is growing just like pinocchio...

[pacquaio]

and i dont give a damn really if nobody reads my post...knowing that somebody read it is a compliment...

[JB (original recipe)]

So Ira only has one focus and some guy who has to cover many different things is putting more effort into it? What am I missing here?

[eddieomaha]

What is with all the screaming in here lately? I know the Nene/ Kleiza for Marion trade was shut down fast by the village idiots... but do you think Nene could be an effective center for us. He's 6'11", young, and much better than Blount. Linas Kleiza is an animal... I think Denver would go for it.

[josh]

Denver would definitely do it. I don't see why we would, though. The real target there would be Nene, and he could be had for a lot less than Marion. We could probably sign J-Will to a big one-year deal and trade him straight up as an expiring for Nene.

[The Watcher]

My thing with Nene is he's earning 10 mil 'til 2012.

That's a hell of an injury risk, it would have been better to go after JO.

[The Watcher]

I rather work out a deal for Krstic

[eddieomaha]

I don't know Josh... I think I look at the trade more as a package deal. Kleiza will never be Marion... but he's a very physical young small forward.

[josh]

Yeah, I don't think Nene is worth the risk, either, now that we have Beasley. Last trade deadline I would've given up our expirings for him because even in the worst case, he'd be a solid power forward. But as a center, he's no sure thing, and we'd handcuff ourselves financially. I don't think he's good enough to do that now that we already have our frontcourt scorer / rebounder / elite PF.

[josh]

Kleiza isn't anything special. He can score, but he's not really great at anything. And he's not good defensively. For our purposes, I like James Jones more than Kleiza anyway. I think we could do a lot better for Marion.

[josh]

We don't need to take risks now. We have an awesome young core with Wade/Beasley, and we have a ton of flexibility in terms of our cap situation and our trade assets (Marion and Haslem). I'd only make a trade if it is going to net us a young, sure-thing core piece at a position of need. I don't see Kleiza or Nene as that. Kleiza, IMO, is a role player/complementary piece. Not really a core piece going forward. And Nene is far from a sure thing.

[eddieomaha]

I can't see Okafor happening... I think we are somewhat restricted as to who would trade for Marion... the Warriors, Lakers and Clippers seem like the only teams that could justify that move.

[eddieomaha]

... and they all want Marion for nothing. GS won't give up Biedrins, LAC won't give up Kaman, and taking back Odom is the only thing the Lakers would give us. I am thinking the trade won't go down until February.

[eddieomaha]

I think we could get much more value for Marion right before the deadline. In the meantime we have an all-star small forward to get us started.

[heat_addict]

To those watching the SL games:

Any players catch your eye besides Beasley and Chalmers?

Likes
-Josh Duncan
-Anthony Morrow

Dislikes
-David Padgett
-Jason Richards

Undecided
-Nick Calathes
-Antonio Graves

[heat_addict]

Sorry, I confuse my Calathes brothers... "Pat"

[Pimpin Lincoln]

Some of the trade scenarious here are pretty crackful. Not including the some comments like "Beasley is already better than haslem and haslem hasn't done anything".

What center do you guys want? Nene? For marion?

Only centers out there that I want are Howard, Ming. Camby as a maybe and who are the rest Wallace? Okur? Shaq? Bogut?

Keep the team we have, develop chalmers, cook, and maybe even wright he could become a decent player he is still young. Be smart and save money for 2010 so we can get bosh, or amare.

[josh]

I agree with you that his value will probably improve closer to the trade deadline. But I'd rather go into the season with our core in place. I bet we could get Gerald Wallace from Charlotte for Marion. They're looking to make a playoff run, and Larry Brown would love Marion's game. It would also give them the flexibility going forward to give Okafor the kind of money he wants without pushing up against the luxury tax.

Marion for Wallace/Felton/minimum salary filler

or

Marion for Wallace/Nazr Mohammad both seem semi-realistic to me. The one with Nazr Mohammed works better for Charlotte. Would you guys be willing to take on Mohammed's contract for the next 3 years to basically swap Marion for Wallace?

[doctorb]

I really don't want to lose Haslem. I was really hoping that we'd start Haslem and Marion with Beasley coming off the bench

Posted by: Greg | July 09, 2008 at 07:51 AM

Beasley has no business coming off the bench to be honest.

He has to fail as a starter, not succeed off the bench, if you get what I mean

Posted by: The Watcher
======================
the best overall talent in the draft, doesnt come off the bench on a team that was dead last the prior season. He starts.

[josh]

Beasley is already better than Haslem...

[heat_addict]

Would the Lakers be crazy enough to trade Bynum and Odom for Marion?

I'd do it. Bynum, injury and all, is improving exponentially.

[doctorb]

I do know what you mean....but if Beasely starts, you have to bench either Haslem or Marion if they are both still here, and that doesn't seem right either.

( I don't know if Beasely is more of a SF or PF )

Posted by: Greg | July 09
---------------------------
doesnt matter: marion is probably a better 4 than haslem also..thus beasley starts, at whichever position he is best at.
-and you need to showcase marion to get the best trade for him...

[josh]

"Would the Lakers be crazy enough to trade Bynum and Odom for Marion?"

Heh, no. They wouldn't even trade Bynum straight up for Marion (not that they could anyway -- salaries don't work).

[doctorb]

I think Marion is going to play the 3 and the 4, until he is traded....

beasley will start at the 4, and haslem will come off the bench at the 4 and the 5, still plenty of minutes for haslem...

[jhova]

Count me in as one of those who think Beasley is already Better than Haslem.

Haslem's offensive game is limited to open jumpers created by others. How many 6-16 or worse games did he have early on last year when we were still trying? At Florida, he was a beast on the low block. In the NBA, he is too small to do that and he had to develop something away from his comfort zone.

Beasley was just born with natural ability to score on the perimeter and inside. He is much more athletic, too. Maybe he doesn't have the heart and desire that UD plays with, but Beasley is potentially going to be a superstar, expectations that you would never hear in the same breath as Haslem