MMA & Bruce Lee --- How would Bruce Lee do in the MMA?
Bruce Lee takes on the MMA.... This is a question I have often asked myself an have compared today's best MMA fighters to. Bruce Lee achieved amazing things in his short life and is an icon. I feel in his prime Bruce Lee would take on all takers no matter what size or weight class they were in. Bruce was fast, quick (there is a difference), strong for a small guy and in shape like no other I have ever seen. Who in todays MMA or UFC whatever you want to call it. Who would stand the best chance at beating Bruce Lee? Would Bruce Lee even stand a chance in today's fighting styles, size, and strength? I feel he would be unbeatable and thrive in this style of fighting and its formates and I also feel there would be some folks that would think twice about entering the sport and the ring. What are your thoughts? Just a little factoid for all of you that might not know Bruce Lee but only of him, Bruce Lee was so fast that they actually had to slow a film down so you could see his moves. That's the opposite of the norm.
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TheDean1
said September 08, 2008
* Bruce Lee's striking speed from 2 feet away was five hundredths of a second.
* Bruce Lee could throw grains of rice up into the air and then catch them in mid-flight using chopsticks.
* Bruce did push ups using only his thumbs.
* Bruce could thrust his fingers through unopened cans of Coca-Cola. (This was when soft drinks cans were made of steel much thicker than today's aluminum cans.)
* Bruce was able to explode 150lb bags with a simple sidekick.
* Bruce once caved in a protective headgear made from heavy steel rods, rods that had previously withstood several blows from a sledgehammer.
* Lee's striking speed from three feet with his hands down by his side reached five hundredths of a second.
* Lee's combat movements were at times too fast to be captured on film at 24fps, so many scenes were shot in 32fps to put Lee in slow motion. Normally martial arts films are sped up.
* In a speed demonstration, Lee could snatch a dime off a person's open palm before they could close it, and leave a penny behind.
* Lee could perform push ups using only his thumbs
* Lee would hold an elevated v-sit position for 30 minutes or longer.
* Lee could throw grains of rice up into the air and then catch them in mid-flight using chopsticks.
* Lee performed one-hand push-ups using only the thumb and index finger
* Lee performed 50 reps of one-arm chin-ups.
* From a standing position, Lee could hold a 125 lb (57 kg) barbell straight out.
* Lee could break wooden boards 6 inches (15 cm) thick.
* Lee performed a side kick while training with James Coburn and broke a 150-lb (68 kg) punching bag
* In a move that has been dubbed "Dragon Flag", Lee could perform leg lifts with only his shoulder blades resting on the edge of a bench and suspend his legs and torso perfectly horizontal midair.
* Lee could use one finger to leave dramatic indentations on pine wood.
Annt74
replied September 09, 2008
TheDean1
said September 08, 2008
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK-PDrjMBck
TheDean1
said September 08, 2008
vjrabid
replied September 08, 2008
TheDean1
said September 08, 2008
TheDean1
said September 08, 2008
TheDean1
said September 08, 2008
TheDean1
said September 08, 2008
I did not make this. I am ust sharing the video with as many people as possible.
Has clips from Way of the dragon, Enter the Dragon and Fist of Fury as well as the footage from Game of Death and The Big Boss.
The video is called "Lose Control" but the song is called "Hero" by Sevendust.
(Thanks Godspeedf24).
His movies were and still are awsome. Especially when you look at everything else that was coming out in the late 60's and early 70's. He was 30 years ahead of his time.
When you look at how bruce lee trained through his books (not his movies) he was actually a well rounded mma fighter. In his own series of books he displayed a knowledge of wrestling skills, boxing, judo (he trained with gene lebell). He had everything from a proper fighting stance to take down defences which he called "Tackle Defence".
To sum it up. The guy was 40 years ahead of his time. And that goes for making movies as well as Martial Arts. Every Martial Arts fighter or fan across the planet owes him a lot.
peagle05
replied September 08, 2008
peagle05
said September 08, 2008
TheDean1
replied September 08, 2008
peagle05
replied September 08, 2008
Annt74
replied September 09, 2008
winamac_9 replied September 11, 2008
TheDean1
said September 08, 2008
TheDean1
said September 08, 2008
mitressehc
said September 08, 2008
TheDean1
replied September 08, 2008
mitressehc
replied September 09, 2008
TheDean1
replied September 08, 2008
TheDean1
said September 08, 2008
GSWgirl
said September 08, 2008
vjrabid
said September 08, 2008
1. Superior quickness, striking and footwork : There's no one who can move like him period, and definitely not as fast. He boxed on his HS boxing team and was an amateur boxing champion in Hong Kong.
2. Superiority in the clinch : Bruce Lee had a long Wing Chun background, and had a chance to test it out on the streets and rooftops of HK. Wing Chun is known as a striking art, but and in addition to giving you good footwork and hands, it also trains you well for close quarters/clinch and takedown defense. I studied WC and all we did were drills and sparring for close quarters. Once you know how to bridge the distance, you're pretty much good to go.
3. Competitive will : I think he'd much rather die than lose.
Bruce would definitely have to shore up on his ground game though. So while Bruce of then vs. MMA fighters of now is academic, if Bruce had the same training as everyone else, he would win DEFINITELY beat everyone.
TheDean1
replied September 09, 2008
your #2 comment I also agree, with his footwork and hands and close quarters fighting and sometimes I think he preferred it close since taller fighters couldn't get any extension nor keep up with his speed and power. I must admit I never knew of Wing Chun thanks for the education on that, we love learning new stuff, any others you can name that study that art? Is it still popular today, if not what are more people leaning towards?
#3 Without a doubt, his competitive will I feel was his foundation and what drove him and your right, he'd rather die than lose. Very good point.
Here is a question for thought, do you really think people today would have the speed to take Bruce to the floor to even think of a ground attack? But I do agree with the way Lee's mind set was and the passion that he put into anything he did, I do think with the training and techniques of today, there is no doubt in my mind, Bruce would be deadly in the MMA. I do think he would kill people, he was that strong, fast, focused, and as you mentioned, loosing wasn't an option.
What do you think? and please tell me more about Wing Chun.
vjrabid
replied September 09, 2008
I don't know of any guys who use WC as their foundation art in MMA, but Carlson Gracie took a liking to it before he passed away (R.I.P.). I found a Bruce video in which the sparring sessions are almost all WC.
The wrist rolling that you see is called chi sao, a sensitivity exercise, while the sweep at 0:38 is a move quite commonly utilized by higher level practicioners.
I think Wing Chun is a good martial art, but like any other discipline, it has its inherent strengths and weaknesses. I think Bruce was good enough to effective apply WC in a fight, but it probably with MMA fights being chaotic, it probably wouldn't look nearly as pretty as in the video.
TheDean1
replied September 09, 2008
TheDean1
replied September 09, 2008
Annt74
replied September 09, 2008
Bula412 said September 08, 2008
TheDean1
replied September 09, 2008
vjrabid
replied September 09, 2008
The problem many boxers and kickboxers have against wrestlers and BJJ guys is that they have been training without taking into account being uprooted from the bottom. Their stances are already high, and they give the wrestlers bait when they charge with punches or kicks, but one of the essences of WC is its countergrappling concepts, and Bruce would have been much better adapted to facing takedowns.
I think Bruce would fight differently from what many people would expect, due to the way he was trained. I think he would start boxing, mixed in with some low kicks, but when the distance closes, he would actually be quite comfortable. I think many of us are used to seeing guys doing the muay thai clinch or wrestling, but I think he would be doing more of the WC thing at that range, subtly shifting side to side and circling in tight quarters, while punching and elbowing, possibly even sweeping.
The link to Bruce's Wiki bio :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Lee
TheDean1
replied September 09, 2008
TheDean1
replied September 09, 2008
nm_angel_eyes said September 08, 2008
he popularized the idea of combining different arts so that you have the advantage of adaptation as a martial artist. he took the best elements of reality based martial arts and put them together to have the ability to create a complete fighter. most people don't realize that he had also incorporated elements of greco roman wrestling, aikido, judo and jiu jitsu into his system. and knowing his thirst for knowledge it wouldn't been long until he discovered bjj.
like sifu paul vunak says, jkd is about taking mixed martial arts and adding lethal elements to create a complete fighter, so that you aren't gambling hoping that you end up in a fight that fits your style. you can handle a boxer, a kickboxer, a grappler, a weapons expert, mass attacks, etc.
bruce would've been a great competitor. a dominant force in mixed martial arts, if he would've made the decision to compete. i'd even go as far as saying that if he had lived he most likely would've been the creative force behind modern day mixed martial arts competitions.
he was a prodigy with a concept that still to this day has not been fully realized by mixed martial artists at large.
~*hands folded in respect*~
TheDean1
replied September 09, 2008
Back at you, nm_angel_eyes, ~*hands folded in respect*~
warlord12187 said September 09, 2008
Agent_Zer0 said September 09, 2008
Rosecity07 said September 09, 2008
johnjohnjoh said September 09, 2008
Second, look at someone like lyoto machida. He wins with speed, great striking, strategy and technique. I see no reason to think bruce wouldn't have the same success.
vjrabid
replied September 09, 2008
TheDean1
replied September 09, 2008
vjrabid
replied September 09, 2008
If you're going to go the traditional route and want to master your art, then I'd go with Tai Chi and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. People are used to seeing the slow, early morning park Tai Chi, but Tai Chi was originally meant for fighting. There's a great video of Chris Crudelli, the host of Mind Body & Kick Ass Moves (BBC) giving a demonstration :
I like this video because unlike the MMA people who dismiss the traditional martial arts, or the other "MMA (Mystical Martial Arts)" people who present things as bigger than they are, this video just shows that there are different ways to executing a takedown. Nothing more, nothing less.
I couldn't tell you if Crudelli is one of the best at Tai Chi, but he certainly has no problem being straight up about things. Another guy that's straight up (I think it's easy to see that what the guys are looking to accomplish isn't a whole lot different that what a wrestler or judoka would be trying to) :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnzIvIVr04o
Tai Chi is comprehensive and pretty much has everything you need while you're standing. But you need BJJ : There's no getting around the fact that you need groundfighting. Even if you have never been taken off your feet before, you never know if you'll need it in an emergency.
TheDean1
replied September 09, 2008
vjrabid
replied September 09, 2008
http://cmnetwork.blogspot.com/2008/06/mad-ballin-rookie-michael-beasley_26.html
nm_angel_eyes replied September 10, 2008
i believe that the most effective combination of martial arts to learn if you are considering mma style competiton, would be:
1. the sweet science of boxing, a classically trained boxer is the most fluid, technical and evasive stand up fighter you will find. timing and combinations are great tools that boxers possess. a boxer learns that 8 punches are better than one.. in mma bouts punch combinations are a great way to soften an opponent up and get him thinking of something else before transitioning to the ground.
2. kickboxing/muay Thai, a great tool to have is a devistating lowline roundhouse kick... high kicks may look pretty and flashy, and are real wow-ers when they connect, but if you really want to put the hurt on lowlines to the legs is where its at. unfortunately you don't see as many as you like in mma anymore, that's why i loved maurice smith's fights, he'd attack the legs and just keep chopping them down until the guy had nothing left to stand on.. knees are another great tool we get from muay Thai.. and although kneeing a guy in the face is the best feeling in the world, a continual knee to the outer thigh from the clinch is the most annoy and has the potential to really effect your mobility after a dozen or so in the same area..
3. wrestling.. as we say in taiji, your power is your root. wrestlers have a great base powerful reaping ability and tend to be all around strong as an ox.. unlike taiji, where we go with force and divert it, wrestling is forward pressure on forward pressure.. a wrestler has the sensitivity to be able to feel body movement in his opponent and act accordingly.
4. brazilian jiu jitsu/ submissions grappling or any new hybrid of the sort.. nowadays you are finding more schools like greg jacksons here in NM that teach a form of bjj/sub. grap. and stand up fighting.. ground fighting is always essential, especially considering the old addage that most all fights end up on the ground... grappling is also a great equalizer for smaller people, as a woman i find that on the ground i am on an equal playing field.. i don't have to deal with a guys reach or his strikes, in bjj my leverage and technique is just as effective as his..
if you learn how to fight in jeet kune do's 5 ranges of combat (kicking, punching, close quarter, trapping, and grappling.. and you learn to use them harmoniously together and how to transition from one to the other you can have a great mma fighter.. it's like sifu vunak says.. go out and spend 10,000 hrs fighting with the best of each style, box with the boxer, kick w/the kicker, etc.... then you come home and put it all together.. you'll never get better training than that.... or you can just do jeet kune do!!!
wow.. that was extremely looooong winded, but it was a very tempting question..
~*hands folded in respect*~
d
TheDean1
replied September 11, 2008
As for watching MMA, I find it hard, in the sense that after watching Bruce fight and train I feel even to this day that I have seen the BEST DAMN FIGHTER PERIOD and as bad as it may be, I compare everyone to him as a standard and as I watch them fight I cant get past the driving question, What would bruce do here, what would he do there, and then end , LOL, bruce would have kicked their azz. I just can't seem to get past that process to enjoy it. Does this make sense? I know there are great fighters out there today and no matter how great they are I still can't help but ask that same old question..... "How would they do against Bruce Lee?" and I still must admit, I haven't seen nor do I know of anyone, in my opinion, that could beat Bruce. And all the reasons have been mentioned throughout this whole article, what do you think?
Annt74
replied September 11, 2008
TheDean1
said September 09, 2008
Agent, you make me ROFL, LOL.... And then you woke up from your dream to find that Bruce Lee hit you so hard and so fast he knocked your name right out of the phone book. LOL...
TheDean1
said September 09, 2008
Agent, you make me ROFL, LOL.... And then you woke up from your dream to find that Bruce Lee hit you so hard and so fast he knocked your name right out of the phone book. LOL...
kgoon1590 said September 09, 2008
wizdom said September 09, 2008
TheDean1
replied September 09, 2008
gderron said September 09, 2008
gderron replied September 09, 2008
haglnuts said September 09, 2008
kgoon1590 said September 09, 2008
Also, look at his ribcage. He believed that the abdominal muscles acted as a shell for the internal organs and that every major movement required some sort of effort from the abdominal region. He concentrated a lot of his training on his abs and obliques, and could probably take a million body shots from people in his weight class.
jcc1983
said September 10, 2008
TheDean1
replied September 10, 2008
Annt74
replied September 10, 2008
TheDean1
replied September 11, 2008
akinimod said September 10, 2008
TheDean1
replied September 11, 2008
akinimod said September 11, 2008
wstcsteagles said September 11, 2008
nm_angel_eyes said September 13, 2008
i understand what you mean, bruce lee was and always will be one of the most iconic martial artists in history. in learning jkd concepts, i get where you're coming from... i watch fights and think of how distructions, dumog, and straight blasts would be great in certain mma situations... i believe as chuck norris once said when he was asked who would win in a fight, him or lee.. questions like that can't be justified with a real answer because we will never know the true potential of lee's ability,due to his untimely death.. and i think as fans of martial arts and great martial artists like lee, we need to honor him by supporting the martial arts in all their forms and keep them alive so that someday another young prodigy who will be as innovative as bruce lee was and take martial arts to an even higher level of excellence.
annt74, i'm glad you said that, because bruce lee's commitment to perfection, unbelievable skill and actual fighting system are one in the same... in some classic archival interviews i have he mentions that like the chinese symbol on yin & yang, everything in his life was a compliment to each other.. his perfection and skill was to advance his fighting ability, and his fighting ability was as great as it was because of his attitude and commitment to perfecting his skills and knowledge of body mechanics, physics and combat.. I have never even watched a UFC or MMA bout, never interested me.
i'm glad that my insight has given you a different view of mixed martial arts. yes at times you do see fighters that come across as less than honorable martial artists, (we must keep in mind that a lot of them are training simply to fight and not making a life long commitment to martial arts, it's knowledge and history) none-the-less, the skills and commitment to training they obtain is commendable. i believe that bruce lee would've loved how mixed martial arts has progressed. mma isn't an exact duplication of where lee was heading in his vision for jeet kune do, but it is the closest martial arts has come to encompassing what he write as his hope and goal for the art he created. it is a sport granted, but a sport that has grown and has produced a great deal of men and women who have taken no limitations as limitations, expanded their knowledge and ability, taken what is useful and disgarded what is not, have adopted no way as the way. i do hope you take a second look at mixed martial arts, i think you'd be impressed and delighted in the skill and ability of todays mma fighters.
thank you for all the positive thoughts..
~*hands folded in respect*~
dana
dustin7609 said November 05, 2008
ufcfan123 said December 16, 2008