54-49 A Record Hardly Worth Being Untouchable.
In case you're wondering what these numbers represent then I will let you know this is Andy Reid's win/loss record since 2004. Since 2004 Andy Reid has averaged a measly 8 wins a season (actually less than that) yet for some reason we as Eagles fans are under the illusion we have a great coach. Reid and the front office have people asking questions like "Who do we get if we let him go?" My answer is anyone can average 8 wins a season especially with the talent the Eagles have. Tom Coughlin would not continue to have his job with expectations of 8-8 seasons and no real shot and winning the super bowl. Only in Philly is averaging 8 wins a season considered the "Gold Standard". If the gold represents currency then they would even be wrong in that department considering they can't beat out the Giants, Redskins, and Cowboys in the money making department. To put this Andy facade of being a great coach into perspective I will point out this fact for you. During the same period of Andy Reid being untouchable, Tom Coughlin's job has repeatedly been considered on the hot seat. All he's done in that some time span is win 68 games (compared to Reid's 54) and 2 Super Bowls! Please stop thinking Andy Reid is untouchable, because he simply isn't that good. Brian Billick won a Super Bowl and lost his job. Reid has done far less and should have lost his job years ago.
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Eagles and Giants Records Since 2004
Eagles
2005 6-10
2006 10-6
2007 8-8
2008 9-6-1
2009 11-5
2010 10-6
2011 8-8
54 49
Giants
2005 11-5
2006 8-8
2007 10-6
2008 12-4
2009 8-8
2010 10-6
2011 9-7
68-44
*2 Super Bowl Victories Over The Team Reid Lost To.
36 Comments:
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FIRE ANDY REID!
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if u fire reid ur looking at a couple years of poor football in my opinion. a new coach is most likely going to want a new QB unless he feels he can work with vick n get him back to how he played last year. then after that he may want to cut costs by getting rid of highly paid players. it would be nice to have a new coach defensive minded that could higher a good DC and OC n let them higher or have input into who are the position coaches. i personally dont think coughlins job has ever been in trouble since 04. fans n media say so but i never heard anything from players or the giants front office to say so. i think the eagles FO is in a tough spot right now and like with dmac everyone is scared of what could be for the worse. back then i wanted dmac to stay if he did i dont think he would of been as bad as he has been for other teams. reid just gets the best out of QBs. it would be nice to have andy as an OC but no way that ever happens. idk who they go after though. im not a gruden fan cowher changes everything n i personally dont think the FO would go after a big name coach. i think it will be a coordinator or a college coach. possibly go after al golden in miami
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Nobody thought the 49ers with Alex Smith would have been as good as they were. Nobody thought the Broncos would have been a playoff team with how bad they were. This idea of not being able to find someone else to do the job is crazy. It all about fear. People would rather accept the mediocrity than face the unknown. There is no guarantee a new coach comes in here and begins a rebuilding process. Shady McCoy is like 25! Reid also failed to get the best out of all three of his quarterbacks this season so I can't give him credit for that anymore. Bottom line is Reid no longer deserves to have this job.
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1. The Niners play in the NFC West. (Hardly a crucible)
2. The Broncos play in the AFC West. (See above)
3. How'd either team look in the playoffs? (That's what counts, right?)
4. Aren't the Niners talking about bringing in Manning if he becomes available? (So much for continuity)
5. If the one year results of the Niners and the Broncos have you excited, how are you not Reids biggest fan? -
They made the playoffs Flip isn't that what counts the most? The 49ers beat the Saints (and the Eagles BTW) so I'm not going to discredit their wins considering the Eagles only beat the Giants last season and lost to every onther team with a winning record. The one thing the Broncos and 49ers have in common is they both have NEW COACHES! Reid's stale tactics have not been getting it done. By the way you want to discredit the NFC WEST, but the Eagles LOST TO THREE OF THEIR TEAMS! and overall they had the same number of victories as the NFC EAST did last season with 30. SO IF THE WEST IS BAD THEN WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT THE EAST??????
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If just making the playoffs is what counts then as I said you should be over the moon for Reid, as he's made the postseason 9 times in 13 years, while never failing to reach two years in a row.
The 9ers and Broncos had something else in common: weak schedules. In 2012 they get to PROVE they weren't flukes this year. And as far as the 9ers beating the Saints, the 2-14 Rams did the same thing. Convincingly. I suppose that make the Rams a force to be reckoned with?
As far as the Eagles losing to 3 NFC West teams. Yes it happened. You want to crown that division a powerhouse, I won't argue with you. But others I'm sure will see it for what it is.
And finally to answer what that says about the East. It says we split with the eventual Super Bowl champion in what for us was a bad year.
Wait...didn't someone say that the NFC East is toughest division in football? I wonder who that was. Oh yeah IT WAS ME! -
Reid no longer makes the playoffs and he certainly doesn't win games in the playoffs anymore. The broncos and the 4ers won playoff games against former super bowl championship coaches. Coaches who have owned Reid! Stop living in the past. Reid hasn't won a playoff game since Brian Dawkins left.
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Agree EZ . There are some here that make excuses time and time again. This team has plenty of resources but chooses not to use him. You can spin it any way you want but when it comes down to it the Eagles always lack talent somewhere.
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The excuse machine never ceases with the Eagles. Fans can't stop making excuses for this team. The bottom line is this is unacceptable. We should expect more from our team and our head coach.
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and owner
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i dont think anyone seen them being this good but it isnt that far of a reach. in mike singletary's second year they were 8-8 and everyone thought the next year they would win the division. didnt happen her got fired for going 5-10 according to wiki. i forget if he finished the season but oh well. they had talent just needed better coaching. i know this is what ur saying about the eagles n i made a very good arguement to fire reid. however to say he is mike singletary when it comes to coaching or anything else is a long shot. reid is a good coach. look what u say about the giants n coughlin always being on the verge of being fired by the fans n media. they stick with him n he gets two super bowls. i do think he is a better game manager than reid but i do think reid is better over all. reids not as bad as we all say. i hate him at times sometimes i wish we had a guy like coughlin but im happy with what reid has done over the last 13 years. like flip said only a couple times we didnt make the playoffs n we beat the champs once n everyone else in the division. our problem was late game defense n the wide 9. but that seemed to get fixed. they figured out that if u use it all game long the dline n LBs get tired. now if we add some talent to the LB in FA and the draft add safeties n keep desean n some others it should be a good year.
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Exactly! When you're close, you keep tweaking. Changing the HC means that unless he's running Reid's "Finesse and Pass" system he'll need new guys on the roster. That means a rebuilding, not tweaking.
This much talent just needs tweaking. Luckily Lurie agrees with me. -
hey i dont live in fear. reid had his run and its over. hes not a players coach and never will be. Its no accident that any credible DC ignored the Eagles. Nobody coach worth anything wants to lend his or her name to an organization that isnt committed to winning a superbowl. Spags turned his nose ath the eagles because he wouldnt sell his soul to the devil. This organization blows and Im sure they have plans for Andys demise. Its his time to go.
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Not just "anyone" can average 8 wins a season. Just ask the Redskins about that one. I'm also a Raider fan, ask ME about that one. And just how many Super Bowls have the Ravens been back to since firing Billick? A midseason win over the Steelers this year just about made the playoffs anti-climactic for them.
I hardly think Reid is untouchable or irreplaceable. My question is who do you replace him with that makes the "Fire Reid" crowd happy? All the names that were being thrown around here (Cowher, Spags, Gruden, Fisher) either didn't come out or signed elsewhere already. Billick has repeatedly more than hinted (while on air, I've watched him do it) on the NFL network that he'd like the Miami job. So who do you get who's demonstrated that they'd be better?
Here's Jeff Lurie's dilemma:
Most coaches will never win a Super Bowl. Even if Lurie replaces Reid, the next guy HAS to win a Super Bowl just to justify his hiring in the fans eyes, sine the Super Bowl is the thing fans are holding against both Lurie and Reid. No one will be happy if all he does is repeat Reid.
Failing a Super Bowl win, Lurie has yet again "brought in a guy who can't close the deal". Worse, if this next guy sucks, the fans won't cut Lurie any slack for hiring him. Just like the fans don't cut Lurie any slack for having already hired the franchise's all-time winningest coach.
It's Heads I win, Tails you lose, with the fans holding the coin for Lurie if he fires Reid.
These days his stadium is always filled to standing and the ticket holder waiting list is how long? Why would he mess with that, if 8 will yield those results?
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Teams that are happy with mediocrity will achieve just that. Just because Reid is the "All Time Winningest Coach In Eagles History", doesn't mean he's the best coach in Eagles history, nor does it mean he deserves his job for life. Averaging 8 wins a season isn't something special. This isn't college football where you get a bowl game for being a crap team in a good conference. With all of the talent Reid has had over the years and his failure to win the big game is more than reason enough to fire him. The argument of "we can't find nobody better" is a poor argument considering there have been several guys hired in the time Reid has coached the Eagles WHO HAVE ALREADY WON SUPER BOWLS!! I can provide you a list if you like. 8-8 and woefully underachieving isn't the way to get it done.
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I've been asking this question for months: Replace him with who, that would be an improvement?
Maybe someday, someone will answer it.
In the meantime it's easy for you to say when it won't be YOUR sales that go down; or YOUR games being locally blacked out; or YOUR merchandise not being ordered because what's already out there is just sitting on store shelves.
Lurie ignores you because he knows he can't make you happy. Philadelphia does not love team owners. Even when they win. So he may as well do what suits him, and let you nurse your ulcer.
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yea im glad lurie doesnt care what we think. idk why people have a problem with that. i think its better. maybe lurie should stop by ur house get ur opinion on the draft come by me get options for free agency n go down to baltimore to get hollywoods opinion on how to connect with the fans
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If I didn't know better I would SWEAR the F.O. read my "THE 12" series last year. They (as far as personnel) followed it almost to the letter and did some things VERY uncharacteristic for them.
If they read it this year hopefully Lurie will bring Reid a copy and personally put it in his hand.
This year will be more about in-game stuff than about personnel. They mostly have the players already. -
If they read your letter and went 8-8 I would call that a failure. I wouldn't be to boastful about being 500.
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how is it a failure? it isnt losing n it isnt winning. add in all the blown leads n u got the reason why we were 8-8. turn them into wins we r looking at top 2 spots in nfc. with the same exact team n same coaches this team will be better next year with no doubt in my mind
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Why not? 8-8 isn't bad for a rookie HC. Besides what they followed was personnel stuff. What they largely ignored was in-game stuff.
When they really started involving Celek (#7) after Week 8 they got HOT. They won every game in which he caught a TD.
They did shelve the Wildcat (#11).
They didn't replace De$ean as the punt returner (#10)until Week 11. They won all but one game after that.
I made SIX in-game recommendations and said the Eagles only needed to commit to any THREE of them to go from chimp to gorilla. It took them til Week 11 to do so and the result speaks for itself.
So I feel pretty good about being .500 this year. Hopefully the franchise will buy in earlier in 2012 and we can win the division outright and get that first round bye on our way to last pick in the 2013 Draft. -
i honestly think they might read our posts sometime. i was saying give schmitt the ball some more cause he makes plays n brings the physical style we missed n then he got the ball like 4 times one game or twice in two games or something like that. i was like they listen to me they really did.
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EZ. I couldn't agree with you more on this. The fact of the matter is, living in fear of change and the unknown is no way to go thru life much less run an NFL franchise. You've heard the old cliche, "It's better to go with the devil you know rather than the devil you don't know." That's a defeatist attitude if I've ever heard one. To those who think that way, my answer is this.
Yes. We don't know what we'd be getting with a new coach/FO.
You know what we do know? What we have at this very moment. Quite frankly, it's not good enough. The results are incontrovertible. To reach your goals, there will come a time and a place where you have to take the plunge. Ultimate victory will always come at a high price.
Don't believe me? Ask the Phillies. -
I believe you! Too bad Lurie is too afraid to lose his golden goose than he is concerned about winning a Super Bowl. I made up a list of 15 guys hired after Reid who have done as much as he has and were hired after him. This fear of losing Reid is pathetic.
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Lurie's actions speak louder than his hollow words. Everything he's done has pretty much confirmed something I have always believed. There's a very small percentage of owners/FO executives that have a genuine desire to win.
I'm talking about guys like George Steinbrenner, Mark Cuban, Ruben Amaro, Bob Kraft, Art Rooney, John Henry (Red Sox owner) and as much as we despise the guy, Jerry Jones. While ol' Jerry has made some very questionable decisions recently in regards to his team, you can't deny his heart is in the right place.
I can't say that about Lurie. The guy's about 99% hot gas. -
I have to disagree with you on Jerry Jones. If the guy truly cared about winning he never would have fired Jimmy Johnson. He has would leave football operations with football minded people instead he has placed himself as the GM of his team and instilled a puppet coach. He doesn't care if his stadium is filled with one hundred thousand Cowboys fans or just 100,000 fans. He's more about the dollar than any owner out there. I could never see the Kraft's of the Lerner's pulling the stuff he does. He is more focused on being the star (the P.Diddy Complex) than he is about building his franchise. I actually feel a little sorry for Cowboys fans, because unlike Eagles fans they have seen greatness, and as long as Jerry is there collecting all the dough, they probably wont ever see it again.
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Yea. Now that I think about it, that's true. I'm thinking that Jerry's starting to turn into Al Davis minus the dementia.
I remember when I was griping about Reid. My friends, one a Giants fan and the other a fellow Eagles fan, asked who I would replace Reid with. I didn't even have to think twice when I said Tony Dungy. I could swear they looked at me and acted as if I had a dick growing out of my forehead. -
Jerry is paying big on his new stadium. he ponied up . Lurie well his wallet just keeps getting fatter and fatter.
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Ive been saying that since 2004
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love it
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i wouldnt want to feel vindicated that Lurie "agrees with me". Has he hoisted a trophy yet? Obviously his formula for that goal hasnt been successful to date. I dont see where they are making such significant inroads to winning a superbowl. We have been passed again by the Giants and it wont be easy to take that spot next year.
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It's back to this idea of entitlement. People are acting as if Reid has won something. Let's be clear. Andy Reid has won 1, Uno, Unis, ONE NFC CHAMPIONSHIP UNDER ANDY REID! That was in 2004! We are closing in on a decade since this guy has made it to the super bowl, meanwhile he has coaching counter parts who have been to the Super Bowl multiple times since he's been there once!
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Lurie is the problem as well EZ. Lurie hasnt shown me any commitment. Im not convinced that winning a superbowl is on his agenda. Unfortunate but true. he has bought alot of time to decide his next moves by keeping fatso on board. Its amazing that reid has ducked and weaved and is back on the field. Hes a joke and would have been canned long ago in Balto. If anyone honestly believes that lurie thinks Reid is the guy they need their head examined. You mean to say he has no doubts by now. Thats laughable.
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It's true anywhere else Andy Reid would have been gone. The fact he sell pipe dreams of almost has people hooked. The fact is when you see Reid and understand that he is NEVER GOING TO CHANGE it's clear. We can't win with this guy. I don't get how people can write over and over how the Eagles need to run the ball more and then are somehow surprised when they don't. ANDY REID DOESN'T RUN THE FOOTBALL! Why are people shocked when the Eagles don't draft linebackers high? ANDY REID DOESN'T DRAFT THEM HIGH. Why does our return game seem to suck. Andy doesn't put much of an emphasis on that phase of the game. Andy is the problem.
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remember the Giants are now the media darlings we are the media garbage.
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Im going to bring my small business insight to the table. Organizations should always be evolving. That includes getting smarter , growing, getting efficient...etc. When you have a guy like Reid thats a known comodity you know what you are getting. He is hindering the eagles from taking the next step. hes not nimble enough and plays the same hand . Hes a bureaucrat. hes got no new ideas. He helped them build the organization but hes got no new wrinkles up his sleeves. They need to somehow shift the balance of power at a minimum or the results will be the same. But i dont pay to see them so no big losses. i cut them a long time ago.
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