January 06, 2014

Chip is ahead of the curve

When the Eagles signed Chip I told my circle of friends that he'll end up on the same level as Belicheck and Lombardi. Of course, they think I'm delusional and have been giving me a hard time since the loss. They would really be pouring it on if Andy won.

Chip is now the 2nd head coach with zero NFL experience (Barry Switzer, Cowboys) to lead a team to the playoffs since the merger. We also broke/tied a number of team and league records. Let's not forget this team was 4-12 under Andy a season ago. Trading punches as rookie coach with Payton who is one of the best says a lot.

Below are the head coaching records of Lombardi, Belicheck, and Reid. None of which accomplished what Chip did in his first season.

85 Comments:
  • I think people are reading too much into Kelly's competition for Foles in 2014. He's basically telling Foles not to be complacent. Foles is in competition like say Shady McCoy is in a competition. If Foles just thinks he can slack off (that's not in that kids nature) then he could find himself not starting. Foles is the guy. There won't be any of that him starting one game and someone else the next. It's a shame people are looking for nonexistent controversies. Chip has this thing under control, and I have confidence that he will also be looking to improve on his own mistakes. A coach capable of adapting his offense to whatever his talent is shows the marks of a very good coach.
  • What I never understand about you is your juvenile approach to who controls what. Lurie has this thing under control. Chip is a facilitator , a supervisor, an employee. Lurie was non committal on calling Foles a franchise player. Of course that means more money. I dont think Lurie is ready to double down on Foles. But even so you act like Chip makes these personnel decisions on his own. It shows that you have no idea how businesses are run. Your naive about business. have you ever been involved in a business?
  • If you really believe that Lurie wastes his time doing the everyday football operation instead of allowing the football people he hired then you truly are dumb as a box of rocks. I've told you before I would love working for you. Not only do I get to make as much money from you as I want, but you also want to do my job for me. You're some micromanaging piece of work Wood.
  • Really ? Thats sort of funny that you cant decipher that owners come in all forms. I have rarely if never met an owner of any business that is as hands-off as you keep suggesting. For some reason you have surmised that Lurie is a passive investor in the Eagles. Just because some dope in the media says hes a "hands off owner" you completely take the word of a 22yo schmuck journalist. Knoock two brain cells together. Do you think Lurie secured 3/4 of a billion dollars in loans and working captal to be a non meddling owner. You need a business 101 introductoryu course. dude.
  • You're the one who can't decipher micromanager. Just telling you everyone has a role. Lurie hired his football people to be just that. Tell you what. Man up and show me documented proof of Lurie being a meddlesome owner. Meaning he's in on all of the everyday football operations and I will believe you. Otherwise you're just full of hot air.
  • Is it worth arguing this point with someone who complains about Lurie having his fingerprints all over the Eagles (something he's made up) yet praises Jones who has had his team mired in mediocrity since he somewhat pushed his best decision out the door? Just another Hollywood contradiction.
  • A chief executive officer (CEO) is the highest-ranking corporate officer (executive) or administrator in charge of total management of an organization. An individual appointed as a CEO of a corporation, company, organization, or agency typically reports to the board of directors. In British English, terms often used as synonyms for CEO include managing director (MD)[1] and chief executive (CE).[2]

    Jeff Luries title- CEO/Chairman- so essentially no one can overide him.
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  • WHOAAA! PUMP YOUR BRAKES!

    There is nothing choke level about Chip Kelly. As a rookie coach the guy came in here, installed an entirely new offensive system (the likes of which only bits and pieces had been used at this level); instituted an entirely new way to run it and communicate it's signals; and in the process won 3 more games than even the most generous predictions laid out. He eventually got us to a playoff game that had YOUR TEAM not been so bad, we wouldn't have even seen. So before you go throwing the "Choke" word around you may just want to make sure the Heimlich Maneuver is in your team's playbook next year.

    As for how fast we scored, that is hardly a PROBLEM. Our Defense not being able to stop N.O. throughout the game was the actual problem.

    Kelly would not have been my choice, and I still have some reservations about him, but there is to be no taking away from what he DID accomplish this season.
  • The NFC North and AFC South had worse records than the NFC East this year.

    The fact that Belichick had NFL experience and Super Bowl rings as a coordinator before he became a head coach proves my point. With the experience it still took him 4 years to take a team to the playoffs. With no experience it took Chip one season.
  • I feel bad for these Cowboys fans Brink. First they know their team is second best at best every season. They know their owner could careless about it, and now America hates them too. Of course these no Cowboys fans here though. Only Eagles and Pats fans have posted here.

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24395744/poll-dallas-cowboys-are-actually-americas-least-favorite-team
  • Cowboy fans have become a bitter bunch...
  • Watching Romo choke season after season combined with the fact Jerry Jones cares more about the green than the Lombardi is enough to make them bitter.
  • Typically, the CEO/MD has responsibilities as a director, decision maker, leader, manager and executor. The communicator role can involve the press and the rest of the outside world, as well as the organization's management and employees; the decision-making role involves high-level decisions about policy and strategy. As a leader of the company, the CEO/MD advises the board of directors, motivates employees, and drives change within the organization. As a manager, the CEO/MD presides over the organization's day-to-day operations.[3]

  • Do you think the CEO does everyone else's job? No manager I've ever met has done any job that I've done and certainly not the CEO. He hires managers (middle management) who hires managers (frontline managers) to hire people (workers) to do that. In the NFL that would be CEO (Lurie), Middle management (Roseman, Smolenski etc) frontline management (Chip and his staff) and workforce(players), but this is only ONE level of the NFL hierarchical structure. You have staff that works events, that works Novacare, marketing, scouting, and charity just to name a few. Are you really that stupid to think Lurie has his hands in all of this to the level of micromanagement? You haven't convinced me of anything other than the fact your employees must hate you, because you don't empower them to do their own job. I on the other hand would love you, because again you would let me choose my own hours, my own salary, and you would do my job too.
  • you have his title . You have the definition off CEO. What evidence do you have he isnt a hands on owner. Statements/Comments what? I think his title should convey the message.
  • I'll elaborate. Show me where Lurie says to Roseman " no draft this guy." Show me where Lurie says to Kelly " no play that guy and hire this guy as you're coach." You're making Lurie out to be this over the top meddlesome guy then prove it. So far you haven't proven jack.
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  • I'll take a Super Bowl "choke" over a cluster of Week 17 chokes any day.

    Really.

    Kelly in ONE SEASON has more playoff appearances and a higher career winning percentage than Jason Garrett, who has incidentally been no better than 8-8 for THREE STRAIGHT YEARS.

    Come on man. It'd be one thing if you were on here excited about next year because Dallas had actually done something other than shift a piece or two around, but the truth is, what you have next year will be essentially what you had last year. And the year before that. And the year before that. And yes, even the year before THAT.

    Just to ask, that familiar formula worked out HOW again? Oh yeah, with your team cleaning out their lockers after week 17, for 4 straight years in a row. So you may want to chill on that "choke" word, because at THIS point there is no team, no coaching staff, and no athlete in ALL OF PRO SPORTS that better exemplifies the term.
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  • Jerry Jones had high expectations of the Cowboys.

    But I guess you're right.

    Jerry Jones is Nobody.
  • @hollywood. Why do you do this? Why do you insist you're right when everybody on here knows you're wrong? Besides Eazy being right about CEOs hiring people to do many of the jobs below them, sports aren't the norm anyway. My guess is that you know this but you would rather find an angle to bury Jeff Lurie than look at things honestly. Lurie isn't deciding who's next years QB...Chip Kelly will decide who it is with an assist from the candidates themselves by their play. You want an example...Mike Vick gives you a great one. Although Reid had to discuss it with Lurie (extremely understandable looking at the situation) Lurie stepped back and let his coach have his way even though he was obviously uncomfortable doing so. Not only that he ended allowing Reid to throw a huge contract at him which goes against your whining that he's cheap. I live outside Philadelphia and although I'll admit I've heard some talk that Lurie is cheap (just more people like you who refuse to look at the whole picture) you are the only person I've ever seen or heard call him a hand's on owner. You either have no clue what you're "talking" about or you have a hidden agenda... I'll go on record as stating its a little of both. Jerry Jones defended himself on his radio show when he was questioned about why he gets so involved in so many football decisions...he was buried for his answer that he believes his way is the right way to do it. Do you really enjoy making yourself look like a fool?
  • The owner has his own radio show, hires the coaches staff, drafts the players, and decides the fates of everyone. That's Jones, and Hollywood makes that guy out to be a good non hands on owner, but somehow Lurie is the meddlesome micromanager? Seems like Hollywood must have been sleeping through all of his business classes.
  • Thats funny. Ill give you a rdimentary example of why lurie is involved. When drafting a QB in the first round you have to way the longterm costs. Lets say for some strange reason the Eagles had the opportunity to get T bridgewater. Although they may not need him ZLurie has to way the future salary amortized over the life of a football player. In his case if he turns out to be a star it could run into the 100s of millions where as the future cost of drafting a offensive guard might not crack 50 million over the life of the player. Do you think Lurie has any say in those financial matters? Besides the clear and concise definition of a CEO that I have provided you and the fact that their are no outside board of directors to challenge Lurie or he has no one to answer too. . He becomes the sole final decision maker. Go back to your 9-5 desk job.
  • You give nothing but generalizations of what any NFL owner COULD do and absolutely NO examples of why you think Lurie is a hands on owner. You pulled the same crap when making accusations of Lurie being racist...you generalized and switched it up to discussing racism in the NFL. You're not describing a hands on owner in your latest posts...you're somewhat describing every owner...do you get that? Lurie does not make the personnel decisions on the players,,,the only two that he does make that need concern us are his head coach and GM. Again...just you looking to complain about Jeff Lurie. All your explanations do is make you look more foolish. Do yourself a favor and just stop!
  • The NFL has a rookie salary cap. Bridgewater would receive his pay where he's slotted. So if the Eagles were drafting high enough to select a QB and they needed one it's irrelevant, because they would pay the same regardless the player. Also for someone who claims to know a lot about management you're a little slow on the uptake. Lurie has dished out two hundred million dollar contracts to QB. They gave Kolb 17 million for one season once. If he didn't want to pay he would never have paid these guys. You have once again FAILED to prove you point.
  • It's all about trying to make Lurie look as bad as possible and nothing about the truth with Hollywood. He doesn't even care or realize that we all have access to the same media outlets that he does and can see the truth ourselves. Hollywood is a perfect example of the saying "he never let's the truth get in the way of a good story". I flagged this comment by accident. Sorry about that, Eazy.
  • No biggie. I'm sure I got at least one stalker flagging ever comment I've ever made thanks to his obsessions with teenaged wizards.
  • First of all when discussing roles you need to understand the differences under the law. Jeff lurie is an individual that owns equity(probably common stock in a operating corporation w a different name)that owns the rights to the Philadelphia Eagles franchise. There could be many forms the ownership takes as well as multiple corporations that own different things. Because the corporation is probabaly(assuming a corp) privately held and a closed corporation. Could be a LLC, corp or c corp. whatever. Jeff Lurie OWNS the stock as an individual. As a stock owner the corporation has a fidicuary responsiblity to the owner of the stock. The corporation under the law is a seperate legal entity that has its own laws and rules it must abide by. Both Jeff lurie and the Corporation have different responsibilites. the corporation has a legally binding mandate to carry out its responsibilities with respect to its agreement with the franchisor. If Lurie were to have legal matters with the NFL it could technically require him to sue the NFL with the corporation or individually as a shareholder could sue the Philadelphia eagles corporation. Now he could technically be fired from his own corporation if the bylaws were prepared in a way that employees could be relieved of duties if they did something so egregious as to require termination based on the frachisor bylaws. Under the worst possible conditions it could require a stand in trustee to oversee operations. So Lurie as an employee(CEO) takes on that responsibility and probably receives a paycheck from the corporation for his job duties. That is not profit but a paycheck like you and I get. unless you collect welfare which I wouldnt doubt because you have so much time on your hands you need to underatnd the seperation of legal responsibilities of all the parties even though they may be one and the same(jeff lurie). Frankly, Jerry Jones doesnt hide the fact that he is involved why Lurie tries to rub elbows with blue bloods and claim he doesnt work for the eagles. But guess what he collects a paycheck and shows up every day to sit and watch soap operas on the jumbotron? Give me a break. get your head off your mommas couch.
  • Lots of unnecessary BS jargon that simply doesn't prove your stance. As far as my job statist goes I'll put it this way. As an American tax payer you pay me handsomely to let you know how clueless you truly are. Show the proof Lurie is involved handson with the day to day operations of the Eagles. FYI unlike. Jerry Jones, Lurie actually has a GM.
  • What does all that crap have to do with Lurie being a hands on owner? One of your longer posts and a complete waste of time. Tell us some examples of Lurie being a hands on owner... Preferably something you didn't make up. Give us quotes where Lurie tells the media who the starting QB is...let's here what positions HE'S looking to draft...tell us what positions he's targeting in free agency. Show us where he has made comments about cutting players and signing players and hiring assistant coaches. Come on Hollywood, let's see them.
  • He doesn't have it cause it doesn't exist. He's full of it. He seemed so convinced at his position. I was looking for the smoking gun. I was hoping he would provide facts and details. He provided nothing of relevance. He's just another guy full of hotair.
  • He and flip are a bit delusional. They text to each other and discuss how we go after PEOPLE on here and completely distort the fact that we only truly question them (who else do I question the way I do them...no one else on here is way over the top with their complaints nor as hypocritical) and in my opinion we have good reason. They both complain way too much about "their" Eagles and stretch the truth or outright make crap up while they're doing it (and with flip I may have left it alone but i just couldn't knowing he gave us grief over our legitimate concerns in 2011 and. 2012). I do have to give props though to flip...I actually saw that he defended his Eagles when someone was a bit over the top on a couple comments the last day or so. If I'm going to point out what I believe are his faults I have to bring up that I may have seen a bit of the old flip yesterday.
  • I never concerned myself with any of these people originally. All of them came at me. I've only defended myself. With that being the case if you have a valid argument with a valid response I am one who can be persuaded. I'm never to arrogant to the point one can change my opinion. I feel you can learn from anyone.
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  • They need a vet qb to push foles period---they need mike vick or someone with vet experience----matt barkley is not ready yet--he is a west coast offense guy---with out arm strength to push ball down the field. Nick Foles is bigger and stronger like ben rosliberger in Pittsburgh. Eagles need two good qb,this year was the example!!!
  • Giving the graphics of recent history Chip Kelly will be kicked to the curb when their delusional fans awaken and realize he's a chip off the ole block compared with the other losers who failed "to win the team's first SB.
  • Give me a holla when Blomogames wins a Super Bowl.
  • Now that Kelly has a year under his belt, he's had time to compile a wishlist of things that would make his offense run smoother. Now it's just a matter of how well he communicate those needs to the F.O. and how good a job they do at scouting to bring Kelly what he asked for.

    I refer specifically to Kelly's Offense because in the Saints post-game interview Bill Davis made it clear that the Defense is his show to run. From game plan to playcall, that's all Davis.
  • I was just randomly thinking about the Eagles and this is almost precisely what I was thinking. I think Chip has proven from a coaching standpoint that he is capable of directing a team through a season. Now, the front office has to come up with personel. If they think they are almost there then this whole thing will be a waste of time.
  • I believe they recognize they can't buy their way to the top like they tried with the "Dream Team." They understand that drafting talent and improving their defense is the key to making this team better. I just saw Wilson win a game by completing 9 friggn passes, because his defense is simply outstanding. You Foles haters would have a field day if he ever produced such an anemic quarterback performance. The Eagles need to focus on improving this defense, getting a new kicker, and solidifying the receiving corps. They also could use a few draft picks on linemen of the future.
  • You can quote me on this. The winner of the Niners/Seahawks is going to win the Super Bowl. I know that the NFL is a passing league and either Brady or Manning will be getting all the headlines in the Super Bowl with those pretty passing numbers of theirs. How quickly people forget. I don't care about passing numbers and spectacular offense, defense STILL wins championships.

    We have an offense that can put up points with the best of them. If I'm the Eagles, this off-season will be all about the defense and special teams. I have a very specific plan that I feel will allow the Eagles to be on par with the likes of the Niners and Seahawks. Let me lay this out.

    Free Agency: If Jarius Byrd hits the open market, he needs to be priority number one. It's not every day you get one of the top 5 players at the position available to sign. Too often this year I saw our safeties getting killed vs. both the pass and run (looking at you Patrick Chung).

    Draft: They can go a number of different directions with #23. You could go with a 3-4 LB in Vic Beasley or Trent Murphy (my personal favorite). Or you can further beef up the secondary. If someone like a Darqueze Dennard or Justin Gilbert is BPA, then I wouldn't be opposed to picking them up. Also, there is a safety out of Louisville that I think you guys should check out. The guy's name is Calvin Pryor. He could potentially go in Round 1, but if he's out there in Round 2. I'd advocate trading up for him. The guy's a heavy hitter and he has shown much improvement in coverage.

    Here are two of Pryor's more famous highlights.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYzunI_IFCM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDEEAUMJ0oo
  • The big question is: What does Kelly feel that he needs?

    Do we have a RB? Yes. Even entering the season there was no doubting McCoy's talent. We're 2 (inexpensive) re-signings away from having a solid WR corp. There's an embarrassing amount of talent at TE. I have my doubts about the physicality of this O-line, and it's shallow to boot.

    We have a plethora of pass rushers at DE. Depth is there at ILB. I think this team needs a legit OLB, but contract obligations may derail that being addressed effectively. We have 3 CB's, but we NEED Safety help as urgently as any team ever could.

    Oh yeah. A QB that could maximize this scheme would also be nice. Just don't EXPECT that to happen in 2014.

    The question was posed earlier about whether Nick Foles makes players around him better. The answer to that question is a flat out 'No'. Based on easily attainable proof, it's hard to imagine that that question was even asked.
  • Flip if he didn't make the players around him better then how did they win? Especially since we all know that their defense is pretty awful. You yourself just wrote "defense wins championships" and they had by far the worst defense in the playoffs. Let's also not forget there were two other quarterbacks on this roster that failed to get this team wins.


    On a side note if having a QB who completes only 9 passes makes this offense "better" then if Chip Kelly were a smart man he would PASS on such terrible logic.
  • I cannot respond properly here, so I will put up a post.
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  • I didn't ignore him. I told him that to give him a better explanation, I would write an entire post in response.

    I have no idea what that "9 passes" thing is all about, but I thought his initial question merited a sensible answer.
  • The 9 completions are about how the Seahawks won despite of Russell Wilson and his pathetic offensive passing performance. If Nick Foles delivered a 9 completion performance you would be saying he isn't a real quarterback.

    I'm curious though. What is the "sensible" part of your argument? Comparing Foles and his record setting second season to NFL journeyman and career backups?

    ASSuming Mike Vick will defy logic and history to come back and lead the Eagles to the playoffs? If Kelly believed this Mike Vick would have came back like Cutler and Rodgers did.

    Implying that any quarterback could do what Foles did? How many teams did the Raiders play this year? How many quarterbacks throw 7 touchdowns in a game against them?

    I just personally think it's sad how far some people will go not to give Foles the credit he's due especially when you consider the fact he did it learning a new offense, didn't have the ability to lean on his defense like other teams, and he did it with a rookie NFL coach from college.
  • I made no reference at any point to Russell's game. I think you've confused some of your arguments.

    You're only talking about Foles' stats. When I compare him to other QB's I talk about his SKILLS. And you're wrong about them being career back-ups or journeymen.

    If you want to use stats as a marker: Dave Krieg was in Seattle for over a decade (most as a starter)and is 12th all-time in passing TD's and 15th in yards. Hardly journeyman numbers. If wins matter to you: Brad Johnson only won a Super Bowl. Only Frank Reich was a career back-up. Up until about 2 weeks ago he only led the greatest comeback in NFL history. So I put Foles in some pretty sweet company. You see, when you like more than one team you learn about the WHOLE SPORT, instead of just one team. That means I can INTELLIGENTLY discuss more than just the Eagles.

    The only things I've recently written about Vick is that his time here should be over, and that him going to Oakland is a good idea.

    You make Foles throwing 7 TD's against us sound like he didn't beat a 4-12 team. We were already talent depleted BEFORE the season started, then we lost our BEST secondary player in Week 2. So you can't say we're awful in one breath, and then make Foles' record out to be a magnificent accomplishment in the next. I mean you CAN, but it makes you sound like a hypocrite to anyone else reading what you've said.

    As far "some people" not giving Foles credit, if you mean ME then just be a man and say me. When I refer to YOU, I don't mince words. Incidentally those bits where you mention him doing it in a new system, with a rookie coach, are both part of a quote you STOLE DIRECTLY FROM ME, when I was talking to Tonyrules further up this very page, NINE DAYS AGO.

    If you're going to come at me brah, at least write your own material.
  • I happen to agree with Flip here. You take Brad Johnson as an insult but if you really examine the two they do have similarities in thir techniques. But EZ just wants to throw these numbers around and say but look he is much better with 7 wins and one playoff loss under his belt. Brad Johnosn has a full body of work to examine. If you were to ask me if he would ever win a superbowl I would have said no way. That sgould give you hope that Nick Foles might have just enough to do just that.
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  • You claim Foles doesn't make the players around him better, but you think you put him in sweet company? I have to admit I thoroughly enjoy reading your insensible commonsense. Keep up the good work. I enjoy the laughs.

    For the record I never wrote that you wrote anything about Wilson. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of you and a few others. After all if Foles NFL records place him only in the category of three guys who have never rushed for as many yards nor have they had a season like Foles (you know the basic journeyman), just imagine what a so called fan of his like you claim to be would write if he completed only 8 passes in a playoff game win or lose.

    2 Journeyman:
    : an experienced reliable worker, athlete, or performer especially as distinguished from one who is brilliant or colorful

    That is EXACTLY what you are claiming Foles is.

    As for Romofools up here: grown folks are discussing sports now. We will have plenty of time to play your silly games later as you bing zero sports content to anything you've ever written on this site. Oh that's right you did write Jerry Jones won five Super Bowls that time. It pretty much sums up your football knowledge.
  • I'm not going to get into that "how many passes" thing with you. A win is win. I didn't harangue Foles for causing my Week 7 losses in fantasy when he played badly, so why would I theoretically give him crap about a win?

    I'm not claiming Foles is a journeyman. I called him a game manager. And it's not just me. That seems to be even the national media's consensus of the guy.

    Do you recall the way that he was talked about on the NFL Network all week leading up to the Saints game? Lot's of "Nick Foles, but" or "Yeah Foles, if Shady" type talk. I don't work for that network or write for them so those aren't my words.

    Quick! Name a nationally recognized sports and/or media organization that regards Foles as one of the top 10 QB's in the NFL? I didn't say top 3, or even 5. I'll give you leeway and let it go as far down as 10.

    The fact is NOBODY aside from some Eagles fans are all that high on him as an elite or even possibly elite QB. Statistically if he has a similar year in 2014 to the one he just had in 2013, he's a playoff win away from being NATIONALLY in that "Elite" conversation.

    Stats or no, if he loses his next playoff game, the "Is he another Tony Romo?" questions will begun to swirl. Keep in mind Romo is STATISTICALLY one of the best QB's to ever suit up with a career rating of 95.8 (5th all-time http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career.htm ); but you wouldn't confuse Romo with Joe Montana despite his career rating being several points higher than Montana's.



    Update: January 18, 2014
    I'm not going to get into that "how many passes" thing with you. A win is win. I didn't harangue Foles for causing my Week 7 losses in fantasy when he played badly, so why would I theoretically give him crap about a win?

    I'm not claiming Foles is a journeyman. I called him a GAME MANAGER. And it's not just me. That seems to be even the national media's consensus of the guy.

    Do you recall the way that he was talked about on the NFL Network all week leading up to the Saints game? Lot's of "Nick Foles, but" or "Yeah Foles, if Shady" type talk. I don't work for that network or write for them, so those weren't my words.

    Quick! Name a nationally recognized sports and/or media organization that regards Foles as one of the top 10 QB's in the NFL? I didn't say top 3, or even 5. I'll give you leeway and let it go as far down as 10. I'll wait....

    The fact is NOBODY aside from SOME Eagles fans, are all that high on him as an elite or even POSSIBLY elite QB. Statistically if he has a similar year in 2014 to the one he just had in 2013, he's just a playoff game win away from being NATIONALLY in that "Elite" conversation.

    However, stats or no, if he loses his next playoff game, the "Is he another Tony Romo?" questions will begun to swirl. Keep in mind Romo is STATISTICALLY one of the best QB's to ever suit up with a career rating of 95.8 (5th all-time http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career.htm ); but you wouldn't confuse Romo with Joe Montana despite his career rating being several points higher than Montana's.

    Ultimately what QB's are judged on will be playoff wins. We already had a QB who manufactured regular season wins and even some playoff wins. In the end it was his inability to win/get back to a particular game that had many fans, you included, running him out of town.

    That was YOUR standard, not mine. You weren't impressed by stats. Not by regular season wins. Because you want a Lombardi, remember?. Anything less is "mediocrity", remember? And you (being a "real fan") won't settle for mediocrity.

    You'll have to forgive me if I hold you to your standard now, after years of watching you brandish it like a badge of honor. Acting as if your standard somehow made you Superfan Almighty, allowing you to set the standard for us all.

    Now look at you. Groveling over some STATS. Nick Foles comes up short in a playoff game and you STILL rush to the head of the line to kneel and kiss the muthaf****n' ring. Chip Kelly says he'll have to compete AGAIN next year (presumably with a guy who isn't even on the roster), and you still can't stop yourself! If anyone disagrees with you, you just slurp a little louder. I had Foles in fantasy, but man, you must have BOUGHT STOCK IN HIM!

    So THIS is where you get to show you're better than me. I'm the hypocrite? Show me YOU aren't one. From this point forward show Foles the same love you showed McNabb when HE went 11-5 and lost a Wildcard playoff game in 2009. Show him the same love you showed Vick when HE also went 10-6 and lost in the Wildcard in 2010.

    Let's put your "standard" to the TEST!

    For months you wanted me to respond to you, and now you've got it!

    This is Birdflipper:

    CALLING

    YOU

    OUT!

  • Your comments are long and boring. I didn't bother reading most of it cause it was a waste of time. Nobody who is too puss to let me respond to their post should even attempt to try and call me out. What's funny is you have been pumping up the Gaiders as this great team for sometime now. You made them out to be playoff contenders before the season and then stated they are a better 4-12 than last seasons 4-12. The only person who makes you stop all of this stupidity is Nick Foles. Suddenly the Gaiders are just a 4-12 team now that Foles beat the sh!t out of them. Here's a few NFL analyst and personalities who are very high on Foles. Not that is matters, cause you hate the guy. Not that I care what you think. Don't flatter yourself buddy. I haven't been calling you out. I've realized a long time ago you can't fix stupid. When Nick Foles is a 10 year vet and if he still hasn't lead the Eagles to a bowl then I will be calling for a change then too. If Joe Montana can be moved then why in the world would McNabb get a lifetime pass? Stick with writing fiction and comedy. That's more in your wheel house. You know like the Gaiders are a playoff team. I always enjoy the comedy.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/joe-namath-nick-foles-could-one-best-quarterbacks-224015672--nfl.html

    http://articles.philly.com/2014-01-10/sports/46069554_1_foles-andrew-luck-trent-dilfer

    http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/news/article-1/Jaws-Foles-Will-Be-A-Good-Starter/8a708834-0eec-4834-98ea-4c6e8f98a0ad

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/1631750/nick-foles
  • HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    THESE are your links? THESE???

    I'll give you a pass on the fact that you blew it when I said "sports and or media ORGANIZATION". You instead chased individuals. You also compounded your fail when you failed to find ANYONE who was willing to call him a top 10 QB. Which IS what I asked.

    But that's okay. I'll work off of what you brought us:

    Joe Namath has on MORE THAN ONE OCCASION shown up drunk ON-AIR. That's the value of his judgement RIGHT THERE. Hey, remember the time he sexually harassed Suzy Kolber ON-AIR? Granted Kolber IS a cutie, but dude even said on-air, while wearing a Jets jersey no less, that he didn't care that the Jets were struggling. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc65NC44dSk. So please, don't come at me with "JOE NAMATH".

    Trent Dilfer? You mean Hall of Famer Trent Dilfer? Oh wait, that's right. That guy doesn't exist! True, Dilfer was ALONG FOR THE RIDE in 2000 when Jamal Lewis and the defense carried the Ravens to a Super Bowl win, but other than that, Dilfer was AT BEST a journeyman QB. So son't come at me with Trent Dilfer.

    That link where Jaws talks about Foles is from 2012. What? You couldn't find more recent praise?

    I have no idea what that last link you put up is about.

    BTW, it's a pretty sad and OBVIOUS lie to say you didn't read my whole response, since YOUR RESPONSE responds to almost every element in mine. From the paragraph (P4)where I challenge you to find an organization high on Foles, to the one (P6) where I mention Joe Montana, to the one where I mention McNabb (P11), to the one where I call you out (P15).

    So with your last reply you expect everyone who can read it, to believe that you ONLY read THOSE paragraphs at random? Dude, none of us could be that stupid and have lived this long.

    You read the whole thing. Probably more than once.

    At least when I say I skip your replies, I tell the truth and admit that I sometimes catch part of your opening statement. (Until about a week ago I just didn't open your posts at all, since many of them were obviously trying to bait me.)

    Don't do that. Don't be that guy. If you did something, you should be able to say that you did it. Don't lie on yourself.
  • I can assure anyone who is angry that your anger is directly related to the Eagles and not me. You're mad the Eagles won with a coach and QB you hate. You're mad, cause the Eagles made you look like a dumbazz. You're mad because everyone is happy with the fact the Eagles are turning the corner and looking like a team of the future. You're mad, because Mike Vick's skin color means far more to you than his production. I can assure you it's not my intentions nor is it my goal to change your minds. Be angry, boycott, hope for the Eagles to become mediocre again, or whatever else you losers think. Just be happy getting your stupid comments "liked" by cowboys and giants fans.

    But don't expect me so waste my time reading your long and boring hot garbage.

    GO EAGLES!!!!
  • There you go again being vague. Just man up and say who you're talking about. Is it REALLY too much to ask you to act like like a grown man?

    There's only a handful of us on this site and couple of those are even dual ID's.

    I'm going to break this down for you and/or anyone else who reads this.:

    1) Nobody is angry over the Eagles season. Not even the Cowboys and Giants fan(s), since they think it was fluke.

    2) Nobody hates Nick Foles. But it seems to irritate you that SO MANY PEOPLE have questions about him. Win or lose he's a stats machine, but his body of work is still just 9 wins 7 losses. Is he the 1-5 QB or the 8-2 QB? Neither is a whole season. We'll know more in 2014.

    3) Nobody hates Chip Kelly. I agreed with Heath Evans that Kelly might go down as the worst hire in NFL history. Admittedly I have to back down off the severity that statement, as he's already been better than Steve Spurrier. Then again, it seems he coached well against "less competitive" competition, and not so well against actual contenders. So yeah, I still have reservations about Kelly. That said, I felt the same way about Andy Reid early on. But through his BODY OF WORK here in my city, Andy won me over. Now, barring him being caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy, he'll take my loyalty to his grave. You have to earn that with me. I'm not your fan just because you sign a contract.

    So there. If EZ doesn't read this, that's fine. But now you WHO DID get where I'm coming from, if you didn't already.
  • Just curious who thought Aaron Rodgers, Eli Manning, Tom Brady, and Donovan McNabb were top 10 quarterbacks in the NFL in their second seasons? Anyone? Anyone? Tell me what NFL analyst saw any of these guys as top 10 quarterbacks in their second season? So no NFL analyst has stated Nick Foles is a top 10 quarterback in his second season yet. Boohoo I guess that means replacing him with a rookie who likely will never have a chance to be a top 10 quarterback or better yet (in the minds of fantasy football players) replace him with a washed up has been who makes bigger promises than he does perform is the answer? Only in the minds of those who enjoy seeing the Eagles fail. You know like raiders fans, giants fans, cowboys fans, and ravens fans.


    http://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/11/nick-foles-eagles-stats-peyton-manning-records/

    Be sure you go to his twitter account and tell him he's a terrible analyst, because flipflop says so.

    Oh look who's ranked 9th!

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000304038/article/quarterback-index-yearend-rankings

    Update: January 19, 2014
    "As long as no one gets hurt and there isn't a tie, I'll be happy with the outcome regardless of who actually wins.

    That said, with the EAGLES being without a QB, and with the RAIDERS being so tough at home, and generally playing better against common opponents (Chargers, Foreskins, Broncos, and Chiefs), there is no sane way to give the edge to the EAGLES this week.

    The pick: RAIDERS 28 - 13

    I wonder if The Pigeon will play this week..."

    Flipflop's Raider Eagles prediction. Now the Gaiders are just a 4-12 piece of trash team as explained by flipflop. Anything to prevent giving even a little credit to Nick Foles. Who are you really dude? Marcus Vick?
  • You haven't been coming on here bashing fellow fans over Aaron Rodgers, Eli Manning, Tom Brady, and Donovan McNabb, so were AREN'T TALKING about them.

    Some of us on here still aren't 100% sold on Foles, so YOU keep saying that that means we hate him and aren't giving him credit. There's no taking away HIS STATS, but other than that, what exactly should we be giving him credit for? Going 8-2 against the bottom half of the NFL? Going 8-2 with the NFL's #1 rushing offense? Going 8-2 then folding up against the Saints? What are we not giving him credit for?

    When the Eagles and Raiders met for that game, BOTH teams were 3-4 with the Eagles having scored a total of 10 points over the prior 2 weeks. Vick was hurt, Foles was questionable and Barkley sucked. So yeah giving the Eagles the edge in that game was anything but sane.

    Nick Foles throwing 7 TD's in that game and not throwing for more than 3 in any subsequent one, indicates that Foles game that day had more to do with the Raiders Secondary injuries, than Foles' talent.
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  • LOL!

    The only thing I've asked him for is proof. I'm even letting HIM define the parameters of the argument.

    And STILL he comes up short.

    There is no denying that Foles had a GREAT statistical season. But with him what did the Eagles do of note? Winning the East was as much others losing it as it was us winning it. And that last win had more to do with your back-up throwing that pick than it did with our starter doing whatever.
  • I asked you for proof, you made an entirely new thread for it and it was completely lacking of ANY PROOF. The only thing you have proven is that you hate Nick Foles and Chip Kelly and you will go to any means to spread that hate. I asked you for your sensible argument and you countered with anybody could do what Nick Foles did, but failed to show who any of those people were. Just a lot of name that NEVER DID WHAT FOLES DID. You have yet to prove anything other than how far you will go to stay wrong. You've been wrong all season, and still haven't admitted as such. The fact a fake cowboys fan keeps telling you otherwise should confirm it for you, but your sorry azz ego will take any kind of compliment. I actually pity you. Keep high fiving your lying cowboys fan of a friend. That dummy is still searching for wizards and thinks Jerry Jones won five Super Bowls. That's what you've been reduced to. Cheers from the peanut gallery. You haven't even provided one single solitary person who even come close to your argument but you and a cowboys fan. How about YOU bring something to the table other than your severely flawed logic. Show me even one NFL Analyst of merit who thinks the way you do. Heck I gave you multiple sources of NFL Analyst just about Foles and you rejected them, but still bringing NOTHING in return. I also gave you numerous Analyst who pretty much expected nothing from your Gaiders. You dismissed them too and defiantly expected those bums to make the playoffs. They won 4 games again. You see it's not me it's you. If you are too stupid or naive to accept the truth, there's nothing I can write that will ever change that, but again I'm not trying to change or fix you, because it know you can't fix stupid.
  • You asked for proof that Nick Foles didn't make his team mates better.

    I put out that they couldn't beat a playoff team with Vick, then couldn't beat one with Foles.

    That's called proof.

    I also never said that anyone could do what Foles did. If I did, find the quote complete with a link to the page.
  • How can you call a lie proof?
  • Oh THAT'S RIGHT!

    YOU count the Packers game despite the fact that they were on their 3rd string QB and without their best defensive player.

    Seriously, that thing that Hollywood said earlier about you not taking circumstances into consideration: YOU'RE MAKING HIS POINT.

    FYI: During the week coming up to the Saints game, one of the points that came up discussing Foles was "Who has he beaten?" The Packers game DID come up....and the entire panel had a laugh.
  • I'm sorry did Mike Vick beat a playoff team? In fact he really only beat one team. I get your game though. Attempt to dismiss everyone or anything that makes your ridiculously bad point invalid. You still haven't shown one valid point. I don't even need any NFL analyst to make my point despite the fact I've given you several. Your argument is based off a lie and assumption. Mine is based off the FACTS like Nick Foles went 8-2 as a starter. He also defeated 5 teams with winning records in that span. I don't believe for a moment Vick could have accomplished such a thing. Not to mention the fact everyone on the team statistically improved when Foles got in there. Oh and lets not forget how NFL analyst were bashing Chip Kelly's offense before Foles and after he's coach of the year. Meanwhile your entire argument is based on a lie and speculation. I offer up fact, and you bring B.S. Sorry if I don't just take the word of a moron who thought the Raiders were a playoff team.
  • No one ever said Foles wasn't a talented Game Manager and pocket passer. In fact I said he was both of those things in the preseason.

    I drafted him in fantasy because I figured he'd be serviceable enough in games to be a stats monster. Turns out I was DEAD ON BALLS ACCURATE about that. TWICE. I however don't think he can be a top 10 or elite QB in this system. So far no one has said a word to dispute that. In fact when the discussion was brought up on the NFL Network, it (indirectly to be fair) generated a laugh.

    Yep.

    A laugh.

    I just think it's suspect how you anoint Foles for beating the same number of playoff teams that Mike Vick did. If you said they BOTH sucked or BOTH were great that would be a starting point. It would at least be consistent and respectable. It would show that your standard was worth something. But prima facie alone confirms it to be nothing but mere personal preference.

    It's downright hypocritical of you to anoint Foles for doing LESS than Donovan McNabb did, when you made what McNabb did out to be failure. A couple years back, when I pointed out to you that McNabb holds virtually every relevant Eagles statistic, you blew it off. Now Foles puts up some great STATISTICS, and YOU anoint him top 10. Behind nothing besides stats.

    How do you explain that?
  • Do your research son. You will see many people view Foles as a top 10 quarterback now in only his second season in his first year in this offense that was supposedly better suited for Vick. As far as both Vick and Foles "sucking" that's stupid. Vick is a turnover machine. Turnovers in the NFL lose football games. That's why Vick is on his way out and Foles is on his way up. To ASSume Foles is nothing more than a game manager and that's all he will ever by has already been dismissed by his own play. Foles lead the lead in deep passes fool. Game managers don't take chances throwing deep.
  • "You will see many people view Foles as a top 10 quarterback"

    I agree with that, IF (as I said before on this very same page) he can duplicate his 2013 season in 2014 AND win at least ONE playoff game.

    It won't matter what he does next year if he can't win a playoff game. I just spent yet another 20 minutes Googling "Nick Foles Top 10", and dude there are ZERO takers to that claim.

    ZERO.

    I did find a Yahoo article from December on why he's NOT a Top 10, but that was prior to the Saints game, and I don't see the point of short-judging his season, when the sample size is only 10 games anyway.
  • I'm not the one judging Foles nor was I the one concerned with finding anyone who believed he was or wasn't a top 10 QB. That's your thing. My question was a simple one. Does Foles make the people around him better? The proof is in the production. I didn't see Riley Cooper explode with Vick. I didn't see any if the TEs as viable options under Vick. I saw the defense give up more points under Vick. Vick and Jackson been together for years and Jackson was never as productive as he's been scoring wise with Foles. Yet you dismiss all of this with false facts. The problem is clearly you or should I state the problem is you can't give the guy the credit he's due cause of your deep rooted hate for him. Will Foles be as good or better next season? I don't know, but if I were to bet I would bet he's likely to stay the same or improve rather than to be traded or released like you ASSume him to be. Have fun rooting for your hope of an Eagles tank job just so you can appease your hatred of the coach and QB.

    Update: January 20, 2014
    Even Shady played better with Foles. His YPC, receptions, and TD average wen up with Foles as the starter. These are facts and not simple false speculations. I gave you facts. You responded with a theory based on a lie.
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  • Dude don't even bother. I only went THIS long to prove a point to everyone else here, which is why I kept working it in that there were others on here.

    I stand to gain nothing (HERE ON YARDBARKER) from debating EZ, so it's not as if I was going to commit a lot of time to it. I just needed to test myself out in the phonebooth again, since I spent so long mostly staying away from pointless debates while practicing my skills at providing a no nonsense environment for others to discuss relevant football.

    I avoided calling him silly names. I didn't make it personal. I kept the discussion focused. I defined the parameters of the debate and even allowed my opponent to define the parameters. And STILL under any sane standard of judging debates, I metaphorically painted this page with his entrails.

    If there were a more robust attendance on this page, he would have burned up all of his credibility and had to bail. Or come back under new ID. He wouldn't be the first person I did that to on here. (I have what, six bodies?)

    There aren't enough people on here to shame the idiots off anymore. So I had to come up with another plan.
  • "I stand to gain nothing (HERE ON YARDBARKER) from debating EZ..." You are correct, because this isn't a debate. It's a massacre. You have nothing to debate with son.
  • EZ -I think you get insulted that some people believe Foles is a good game manager. That role can win a superbowl. I have to admit I would have never thought that Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer would have the success that they had. Im will to concede that with a full arsenal of weapons and a good healthy o line Foles might succeed where others have failed. Foles wont get that aaron Rodgers contract. Not going to happen but maybe the Eagles are better off having a QB of lesser stature and the players around him that can make him a better QB.
  • I don't care about his money or what kind of contract he gets. I just want to see him win. At least you believe he can be an effective starter, but I think people are devaluing his success. Heck I'm a reasonable man. You bring me some valid info then I could be persuaded, but I'm not changing my opinion of Foles based off someone's fairy tale stories.
  • He can make plays with the right athletes around him. I think so. I think we need to build on that momentum and add key players at certain positions on offense and build the defense quickly. We should be able to serve the league notice next year. If we dont, I thik we will have a serious problem and mediocrity. Foles time is now. No doubt about it. Im not ready to call him an Aaron Rodgers but I think he can be as good or better than Brad Johnson or Mark Rypien. If that won a superbowl why cant Foles?
  • The bottom line is winning the bowl. That's all that matters to me. I don't care if he does that as an average joe or Jonny elite. Many people never viewed Eli as elite. Some still don't, but he has two rings. Foles can certainly do that for this team, but I don't think there are many quarterbacks besides like John Elway who could take a mediocre team and win with them. Still what Foles did with this team was excellent considering how deep a hole they were in and the fact they have little defensive talent.
  • I think you and I both agree that Foles is an efficient QB; but so far on that scale of elite, Foles IS that lesser QB.

    Wait. Don't let me put words in your mouth. Instead I'll ask you: Is Foles a top 10 QB?
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  • Delaware? I've seen you refer to a fan from Delaware, but I never knew you meant EZ. Explains a lot.
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  • Yes Foles IS a top 10 quarterback. Foles is far and away the best option for the Eagles at quarterback right now and the near future. In fact Foles has shown he's likely to only get better. Tell me flip flop where do you think Foles should be ranked?

    Update: January 21, 2014
    Flipflop chooses to ignore NFL analyst, but takes his advice from an internet stalker obsessed with Wizards. I've seen dumb before, damn....
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