June 12, 2013

DISCIPLINE IS PETERING OUT.

HEEEEYYYYYYYY!!!

Jason Peters has been arrested for drag racing and fleeing the police!

Isn't it GREAT to see the firm hand that Chip Kelly has on this team?

You'd think with all the "hard taskmaster" whip cracking Kelly is doing, the team would be afraid that he'd cut someone for getting out of line. 

You'd think all the playing folks out of position, would show everyone how expendable they were.

Oh well.

65 Comments:
  • This is a little concerning (an arrest always is) but unless Kelly was riding shotgun and egging Peters on this is hardly his fault. I'll have to go back and see what you posted when Peters was arrested at a concert back in 2011 when Andy Reid was coaching the Eagles...something tells me I won't find anything pointing the finger at the head coach.
  • Didn't say a word about it. Such things were an aberration back then. He didn't repeat the behavior and it didn't spread. No need to harp that there may have been an issue with player discipline.

    TODAY however, there has been an apparent explosion of misbehavior on the team and EVERY player cited is an incumbent starter and a guy who should be acting as a leader on the team.

    This IS an issue. Especially considering how many rookies are on this team, who have no idea what it means to be a pro. If the star players don't set the example, who's left besides the coach.
  • There is no "explosion", because it's been here for sometime. From players bullying fans, Jackson throwing punches in games. Babin blasting the fans on twitter, coaches making derogatory remarks to other coaches. It's been here the whole time, and unfortunately there was no accountability for any of it. Reid turned the other cheek and muttered "do a better job" over and over again. So don't expect what Reid allowed for years to suddenly disappear in a few months. These are still Reid guys except for Williams and by judging him off some of his actions seems like an idiot, and possibly a bad signing.
  • Flip will never admit that he is making a big deal about things that really aren't going to matter in the grand scheme of things when the team gets on the field this year and he's trying to make them seem like things are getting out of control because he doesn't like Kelly. An "explosion"? A couple players whining that a QB needs to be named...one of them the old starter the other (Jackson obviously) saying that the race is dead even but hints that a QB should be named now...how does that even make sense? There is a QB controversy because the only QB the Eagles have that has YEARS of starting experience just isn't good enough. He points to Cary Williams and his decision not to show up to voluntary camp. What should Kelly do?...cut him? He placed him with the twos during the mandatory camp...let's see how it carries over to training camp. If a half dozen players don't show up to voluntary camps next year then we can say there is a problem. Jarius Byrd has been skipping all of Buffalo's camps and Andre Smith is doing the same in Cincinnati. It happens sometimes...just like you stated Williams may just have been a bad choice to man one of those corner spots. He certainly isn't winning fans now but if he starts and plays hard that may change.

    There certainly were issues over the years when Reid was here...when you win they just aren't as noticeable. You brought up Buckhalters arrest for pot with two other teammates. Peters was also arrested just two years ago...Vick and the shooting at his 30th birthday party...Mathis and Kelce making news for harassing fans holding signs...McCoy not showing up for appearances...the whole TO, McNabb fiasco (I'm on Reid's and the Eagles side here but I have to bring it up because according to flip, it's almost always the coach's fault). Found a site that lists NFL arrests so here they are not including the ones I already mentioned under Reid. Dion Lewis arrested in 2012 for falsely reporting a fire and disturbing the peace for pulling a fire alarm when he and his brother were locked out of his hotel room, Akeem Jordan arrested in 2011 for assault and battery, King Dunlap arrested in 2011 for driving his SUV onto a sidewalk in front of an arena and refusing to move it, Juqua Parker arrested for possession of pot after being pulled over for a traffic violation in 2009, Mike Patterson arrested for possession of pot in 2008, Jabar Gaffney charged with unlawful possession of a handgun after a vehicle stop in 2006, here is my favorite: Dhani Jones arrested for failure to obey a lawful command...he refused to stop dancing outside a South Beach club, Damon Moore was arrested for abandoning a puppy in 2001, Thomas Hamner was arrested for beating his pit bull and Terrence Carrol was arrested for pot...these last 3 were all in 2001...not a good year for Reid when it came to babysitting his players. The arrest report I found only went back to 2000 so there could be more under Reid. Take a look at 2011 and 2012...4 arrests. Do we call this a mini "explosion" near the end of Reid's tenure? I'd call this a plethora of arrests in the Andy Reid era if I just knew what plethora meant. Players make bad choices and teams deal with them. It doesn't mean the coach isn't doing a decent job. If the Eagles all of a sudden turn into the Bengals (or the Raiders for that matter) and start averaging numerous arrests a year I'll start worrying and possibly questioning what message the TEAM is sending to the rest of the players by ignoring a growing issue. Right now it's a couple bone headed, rich, spoiled MEN thinking they can do whatever they want.
  • Green all the info we added doesn't matter to flip. He's trying to make a point regardless of
    How ridiculous the point is.
  • How long did it take you to research these? I only say that because I don't recall ANY of these being talked about AT ALL on here. They didn't matter to you when they happened, why bring them up now?

    This current rash of misbehavior, I'm mentioning it NOW. While it's happening. I'm not trying to take issue with stuff Thomas Hamner (who?), and Terrence Carrol (who?) did over a decade ago. I'm taking issue with the leadership structure (players AND coach) of this current team.

    Let me ask you. About these bone-headed, spoiled, rich men: Should the team attempt to reign this conduct in or should they just chalk it up to "Boys will be boys"? and ignore it.
  • How about something more recent. You act as if Reid did no wrong, but explain how does he allow his convicted felon son into training camp with drugs? On top of that when they found his body they also found STEROIDS IN HIS ROOM! THE COACH OF AN NFL FOOTBALL TEAMS SON HAD STEROIDS AT AN NFL TRAINING CAMP! And what did you do? Did you predict doom and gloom? No you said MORTAL LOCK. Here some guy decided to drag race at 4 in the morning and that's Chip Kelly's fault, but ANDY REID"S SON BRINGS DRUGS AND STEROIDS TO TRAINING CAMP YOU YOU"RE NOT ONLY IGNORING IT YOU THINK HE"S GOING TO WIN THE DIVISION. Your hypocrisy never ends does it? One final note on this. Andy's son is barley been in the ground a day and what does he do? He allows his scumbag agent to try and make a sympathy play to keep his job. No research was necessary here. This is common knowledge. Common knowledge you chose to ignore. Tell me flip are any of these so called incidents you're blaming on Chip Kelly bigger than Andy Reid allowing his convicted felon son to bring illegal substances into his training camp?
  • That statement is both ghoulish and inaccurate. It is inhuman to trivialize the tragedy of a fellow human being, by comparing it to a meaningless sport.
  • I knew you would make such a lame response. The truth is the truth. You can't get more serious than someones death, but you just ignored it. Like it never happened. Don't bother trying to tell me how SERIOUS the problems are now when you ignored them all last season. Don't think hiding behind Reid's sons unfortunate death makes you better. Reid didn't even do that.
  • On August 5th 2012 I inboxed Andy Reid this message on Facebook:
    As a father myself, my heart is broken for your family. Considering how much you've done to give players a second chance, you DESERVED to see your own son be able to enjoy the fruits of making good on his own. I know it can't mean much, but a million condolences to your family. And please don't let this rob you of your faith.

    So no. I DIDN'T ignore it.
  • Very noble and kind, flip but you know what Eazy means and yet dance around the statement. You question Kelly for how he is handling his players yet ignored the fact that there was speculation and questions surrounding Andy Reid's son (and employee) when drugs were found in his room at training camp after his death.
  • Exactly the point Green. If he's going to be in a tizzy over what's been happening under Kelly then he should have been in an uproar over some of the things that happened under Reid. All he had to tell us was Mortal Lock.
  • How long did it take me to research this? What year is it? Come on, flip...we are on the internet, aren't we? This was all on one site...I know I didn't take as much time to find it, type it up and post it as you spent on yardbarker yesterday. You don't recall any of these being discussed on here? I would guess that's because most people realize that things like these arrests happen much too often in the NFL and most fans don't want to look too deeply at the negatives....the point is they did happen and regardless of whether they were bench players or stars, if you want to stress one arrest under Kelly as losing control than there seems to be plenty to choose from when it comes to arrests under Reid. Besides, you are the only one making a big deal about Peter's arrest and trying to make it seem like Kelly doesn't have control of his team. What should Kelly do and what could he have down to prevent Peters from going on his joy ride? You know for a fact NO team in the league would cut their best offensive lineman over something like this. As for preventing it there is nothing he could have done just like Reid couldn't stop him from being arrested at the concert in 2011. Do you honestly believe that this past weekend was the first time Peter's did anything illegal or asinine in any of his cars or that that it just so happened he was caught in Kelly's 1st year? Do you honestly think that Peters would have thought "I can't drive like an ass because Coach Reid will be disappointed in me" before this year? I know you can't be that naïve.

    Should the Eagles treat any of the things going on as boys being boys? Let's go over the list.

    #1. Vick and Jackson. If I was Kelly I would tell them to discuss their concerns with me but if he wants to let them have their say to the media I'm not going to crucify him for it...it's not a big deal at all. Both Vick and Jackson have spoken up about not being happy with the team in past years so it's not like it's just under Kelly. As for not being happy about not naming a starter...tough ****! They'll get over it and if they don't they need to find a different city to play in.

    #2. Evan Mathis and his stupid picture. What can the Eagles and Kelly do but let him know how immature it was and we have NO idea whether they discussed the matter with him or not. Evan Mathis was also in the news under Reid for another immature move when he tried "hushing" fans who had every right to be doing what they were doing.

    #3 Lesean McCoy. This is a concern I have (the biggest) but since no charges were filed what course do the Eagles truly have but just letting McCoy know that some of his moves don't reflect well on him nor the team? If he loses a civil suit I guess the Eagles and the NFL could take a longer look at it and they may but until then...a talk is all they can do and the Eagles may have already done just that. No team would discuss this with the media until proof came out one way or another and most (all of them probably) would stay away from discussing it anyway. Again, what team would look to discipline one of their best players when legally there is nothing so far? McCoy also was a slight media headache to Reid because of his missing at least one paid appearance he was supposed to show up to.

    #4 Cary Williams I already discussed before. He was in his right to stay out of the voluntary OTAs but if I was Kelly I would make him work harder than most to earn his spot and by Kelly running him with the 2s it seems like he is doing just that so far. If there isn't a huge difference between Williams and any of the corners vying for the spot Williams would be backing up to start the season. I would guess that should wake him up and give him some incentive to show up next year.

    #5 Peters. I can't see Peters losing time over this. Les Bowen of the Daily News was stating that the NFL could be keeping an eye on this because many players have been arrested for speeding lately. If Goodell decides to try and make an example out of Peters I would guess the NFLPA could step in but who knows what will happen. Probably just another stern talking to and maybe even a point for discussions in camp this year. Honestly, what else would any coach or team do with their best lineman in this case? I don't think we would be hearing anything different in ANY of these situations if they happened on any other team. It's just you "demanding" action because it's Kelly and not Reid.


    As for your response to Eazy's question about Reid's son Garrett...seems to me you are ducking (you accused Eazy of that just a few days ago) but you do that quite often lately. You tout your Raiders as getting better by cutting cancers but when it is pointed out that many of them were from bad drafting you type that's in the past and you want to look forward. Of course you don't want to debate the recent past because the Raiders released many early draft picks recently and also traded a couple away for next to nothing. It doesn't help your argument so the best course is to just stay away. That's a great thing about being a fan, flip...that's one thing we can afford to do and have plenty of time for...looking at the past. Stop ducking. Out of respect for Reid I haven't delved in his son's death on here and won't speculate but Eazy's question absolutely fits here (and it isn't GHOULISH so stop exaggerating) if Kelly is partially at fault for what Peter's was doing early in the morning in some other state, Reid has to be more to blame for his son (and employee) for having enough drugs on the same campus for the media to speculate that he may have been dealing. I'm not questioning how Reid grieved his son, I'm not stating that Reid knew his son had all those steroids in his room...I'm just using the same logic you are using with Kelly and in this case it is absolutely more on target.

    To wrap this up let's look at Reid's recent media messes. Coaches not getting along, Babin talking to the media (sure Babin was in the wrong but he was Reid's player so it must be Reid's fault, right?), 2 arrests in both 2011 and 2012 and the questions surrounding the steroids AT training camp. Seems to me that using your logic the Eagles were in a free fall and Andy Reid lost total control of his team...but they never should have let him go. LOL.
  • I'm not just avoiding delving into Raiders recent past, I'm also avoiding delving into the Eagles recent past. I can't get 2010-2012 back, so I choose to let them go and focus on my today. You want to keep re-living 2011-2012? Be my guest. Just don't expect me to engage you in it.

    If you want to call it "ducking" then by all means, please do. I told you where I stand, and I won't be changing my position on that particular matter.
  • Nothing but BS, flip. You state that arrests were an aberration under Reid and when given proof that they happened more often than you thought you don't want to go there...that is flat out ducking!
  • The arrogant never admit when they are wrong. Dude would rather twist the words (Hollywood style) of everyone rather than admit to the truth. What's funny is dude was busting my chops for ripping the Raiders moron of a coach who won 4 games last season. He expects me to give that guy more time, but here he is ripping Kelly WHEN THE GUY HASN'T COACHED ONE FOOTBALL GAME YET! He wanted to reward Reid after a 4-12 season whith patience and A CONTRACT EXTENSION, but the jury is out on Kelly after being the coach of the Eagles for not even a half a year yet? I mean what is up with this dude?
  • Flip's definitely flipped, Eazy. He's got to know how he sounds (looks) with his replies but I think his pride just keeps getting in his way. It's been going on for months and he just can't stop himself.
  • He needs to give it up. He just seems so off the wall with this right now.
  • I guess it would be wise for Chip to make sure he goes to all 90 of the players homes and make sure they are tucked in with a warm glass of milk by 9pm sharp. Clearly it's HIS fault Peters was drag racing at 4 in the morning.
  • Nope. But you know what? Let's just keep blaming Reid. Even if Reid DID leave a mess, who's job is it to clean it up now?

    You want Reid to do it?

    How about if nobody does it?

    WAIT! That's EXACTLY WHAT IS happening! So we'll just let it all fester for however long Kelly is here, then when he goes, we can STILL blame Reid!

    Fact is, THIS roster is now KELLY'S responsibility. He isn't making 6.5 million this year just to pretend he's Issac on the Love Boat and mix everybody's drinks. Or hell maybe that's all you expect of him.

    I for one think a HC should be more than a deer in headlights. But by all means, enjoy your blame game.
  • They will drop the fleeing police charge and give him a fat ticket. Who cares.
  • I figured. Nobody does time for speeding or evading. I just don't like the emerging pattern of behavior.

    As a Raider fan I'm all too familiar with players doing dumb stuff off the field. When they got rid of the problem guys, I figured I could sit back and mock the Cowboys wholeheartedly. But it seems like the Eagles and Raiders are intent on trading places.
  • We'll see who survives the 53. If some of these guys are acting out to get out of town then they may get their wish granted. If Peters decided at 4:30 in the morning to act out it wasn't because of his coach rather it was against the entire organization. Chip Kelly isn't the one who docked his pay last season.
  • You know, I never thought of it that way.

    You really think some of these guys could be eyeing the exit, already?
  • Sure, McCoy booted a woman off a bus (and allegedly assaulted her) because he wanted out of town after the Eagles gave him a huge deal that goes up in value big time NEXT year (he has a nice payday this year at over 5 million but next year it goes above 9). Same goes for Mathis who has finally come into his own (and also got a very nice deal) in Philly and he did it by taking a picture of himself urinating on an IRS building. Cary Williams sat out of voluntary OTAS so the Eagles would cut him months after he signed his deal (great way to get a quick 10 million). Peters is due over 10 million this year but I'm sure he'd rather go out and try to get a bigger deal at 31 coming off an achilles injury. The only player this may apply to is Mike Vick if he isn't the starter but he played the good soldier last year for the most part...no reason to think he won't continue...not even his wanting to know who the starter is now.
  • Look, I was just replying to something your husband said. If you think the idea of players trying to leave is silly, take it up with him. It was his idea.
  • I couldn't help myself. Might be one of your least thought out replies and you've had quite a few lately.
  • So because HE said it it's NOT silly, but if I'D said it, it would be?
  • Eazy typed it in the past and I can't get that back so I'm not concerned about that. I'm only concerned with the most recent and you typed it most recently.
  • I put a question mark at the end of it, so that HE would respond. So for me it was never a statement. In fact, I'm still interested in HIS response.
  • Once again you ASSume and jump to conclusions. I never wrote anything about Peters wanting to leave. I just made it clear his axe to grind wouldn't be with Kelly despite the fact you will blame him anyways.
  • WRONG!

    Here's a direct quote from YOU just a few lines up:

    If some of these guys are acting out to get out of town then they may get their wish granted. If Peters decided at 4:30 in the morning to act out it wasn't because of his coach rather it was against the entire organization.

    Peters was the ONLY player you implied leaving.
  • No they are separate sentences. The only person I believe is trying to make a play to get out of town if Vick if he doesn't win the job. You on the other hand are making it clear YOU want to get rid of Peters "As a Raider fan I'm all too familiar with players doing dumb stuff off the field. When they got rid of the problem guys....." So my response to YOU is if those guys are acting out they MAY get their wish granted. As far as Peters goes, despite your obsessive effort to blame Kelly for this he isn't "acting out" to test the coach. Like I wrote if he has an axe to grind with the Eagles it has nothing to do with the coach, because he wasn't there when they took his money. I just think Peters did something very stupid. You have likened him to Roland McClain. Speaking of McClain here you want Kelly to axe Peters off, but the Raiders kept that psyco amongst them for a full year with the new future HOF coach you guys have. Judging by your feelings of Kelly it would seem natural that you would want this guy gone. After all he's PROVEN that he sucked as a coach. Since you don't then it's clear your vendetta with Chip is personal.
  • I know it's bad but it's funny as hell. Good no one was hurt. Did anyone see what type of car it was?
  • I think he was driving a white Camaro. Like you can hide in a WHITE CAMARO!
  • LOL!
  • Well if u didn't know before u know now not in a grocery store parking lot
  • I think the point here is that there is a lack of respect by some players wearing the eagle uniform. I mean i think it should be badge of honor. And should be treated as such. The McCoy beatdown, the Jackson photos , the urination at the IRS, the Peters lawlessness, isnt a sign the team has grasped the gravity of the Eagles predictament. we are team that isnt well respected or playing good football.
  • Who deserves respect on a 4-12 roster? Haven't you ever heard the term "respect isn't given, it is earned" before?
  • I think those that have worn the uniform before these clowns built the respect it used to get- Reggie White, Randall Cunningham, Ron Jaworski...etc. They are inching towards irrelevant.
  • There is no Randall or Reggie on this roster. Those Eagle greats are long gone. These guys today don't have the pride of the uniform. Ironically you can blame Reggie for that since he's one of the players who brought the suit against the league. Oh and you can blame Norman Brahman for the fact Reggie brought on the suit for being an evil, cheap S.O.B. Today most athletes are nothing more than mercenaries out to get their next check. They don't care about the colors, the fans, the organizations, or the team history. They only care about the paychecks.
  • It's good to see flip has finally stopped blocking you Hollywood. It's been obvious for months you two think so much alike that I don't know why he blocked you in the first place.
  • I didn't even realize that flip isn't blocking him anymore. Funny, he couldn't give him the time of day before because he couldn't stand what he had to type but now that flip has flipped he wants someone that agrees with him on his posts...even if the guy was...(this is where I would go back and find something negative flip typed about Hollywood but I'm just too tired right now). Going to bed soon.


    By the way, flip. I am behind team discipline and this is where you stop exaggerating about the Eagles and start exaggerating about us. I would love to see Kelly do something about some of the things going on and you know what...it's quite possible he already has. We just can't be sure. No team would cut any of the players for any of the actions by Eagle players this year so what does Kelly do? Talk to them...could have already happened, correct?
  • What does Kelly do? Glad you asked!
    At this point he could levy a fine, and have the player apologize at a press conference, or in a private team meeting like Favre had over his "Crocs Only" photo shoot.

    He can't deactivate a guy and dock him a gamecheck at this point. Demoting him prior to camp would just be silly, and would make Kelly a laughingstock on his own team if Kelly was eventually forced to elevate the player again.

    Currently no one is doing or even SAYING anything.
  • They don't have to say anything publicly and how many players have come forward in the NFL and apologized publicly for some of these types of matters? When was the last time you heard of a player publicly apologize for fleeing the cops or speeding? How about the dumbass photo of Mathis? Would it be classy if either of these players did it on their own...absolutely but for Kelly or the team to insist would be rare in the NFL. I'd be fine with a apology to their teammates and they may just get that eventually but camp is over a month away. As for McCoy like I stated there were no charges filed...what are the Eagles to do? Make McCoy come forward when right now the law has nothing to back up any wrong doing? Again flip...you pushing for things only because it is Kelly here and this is an easy one to prove. When was the last time you demanded a public apology from an Andy Reid Eagle for any wrong doing?


    Hollywood, I know you don't agree with him all the time and the same goes in revers and that is part of what's funny. It got to the point flip couldn't take what you had to type anymore so he blocked you. Now that you are practically the only one that agrees with him in this matter he lets you comment on his posts. Now that he has fault with just about everything Eagles just like you do you have a common bond just like when he was pissed off about the trading of McNabb and started typing kudos to you. Kind of proves my point to him that he has become like you lately and by letting you post he almost admits it but he doesn't even get that.
  • I dont agree with him all the time. I certainly dont agree with him posting about the Raiders here but hes a good writer and I think our opinions just happen to be a little more compatible in some areas. Player behavior included.
  • You would think that team discipline would be something that all fans could get behind. That having players personal negative press reflecting poorly on the TEAM, would be something we all wanted kept in check.

    But there are some among us who think it shouldn't be addressed at all.

    Or more accurately, that it isn't THIS head coaches job to address it. It's okay to blame the LAST one for not doing so, but it's perfectly fine if the current one does what his predecessor is lambasted for.

    It cannot be had both ways.

    If the coach doesn't do it, maybe the starting QB will take control of the issue and show some leadership. Oh wait. Ahhh [bleep]!
  • You ASSume it wont be addressed, but we haven't even hit training camp. Just cause they aren't telling us doesn't mean it isn't being addressed. Kelly doesn't even see these guys again for another month. We'll see who makes the 53.
  • So who is supposed to address it?
  • Perhaps we will see when they get back.
  • My question to you wasn't who WILL, it was who is SUPPOSED TO?

    You say it was the HC's responsibility before. Who's responsibility is it now?
  • The players are men. They need to act like it I'm sure somebody in the organization had a talk with Peters. It doesn't mean they have to tell you they did. Maybe they got the janitor that Reid got to tell McNabb he was benched. That Reid ALWAYS KNEW WHAT he was doing didn't he?
  • You're SURE somebody had a TALK with him. Double-double sure? Pinkie swear sure? Sat him down and went over all the reasons he should obey the law and not break the law along with a refresher course on what is and what isn't considered legal? This is what you're SURE happened?

    Funny because most PRO teams levy fines and suspensions for things like this. Are we no longer a pro team? Are we- I'm sorry, I didn't get the- WHERE'S MY MEMO?!

  • I absolutely agree here. I think fines should be levied. Especially the urination wich was a complete insult to the Eagles fans everywhere. If you look at the whole picture the best attitude and most professional guy is Michael Vick.
  • Urinating on a building was an insult to all Eagle fans? I'm not sure how. Dumb and embarrassing to the Eagles...a bit. A real insult to all fans would have been in 2011 when Mathis and Kelce went off Eagle property to try to intimidate a couple fans from holding up signs asking for Reid's firing. I personally would never stand outside the team's training facility doing what these fans did but they had every right to be there holding signs if that's what they chose to do.
  • No, but I'm not blowing a gasket over it either. How many times did the Raiders talk to McClain? You can talk to a guy until your blue in the face. I'm sure the Steelers did a lot of talking to "Rapethisgirlhere" and that guy is so hard headed he needed three lessons.
  • Most flip's posts and comments reek of double standards, biased opinions and hypocrisy anymore.
  • Did all that talking work? No.
    Was I happy when the new regime cut him? Yes.
    I even put up a post, complete with picture, TRUMPETING the move, didn't I.

    This is EXACTLY why I'm saying something strong needs to be done at the delta of this issue.
  • Flip the new regime cut him AFTER DEALING WITH HIM FOR A FULL SEASON! Kelly hasn't been coaching the Eagles for even half of a year yet! Are you trying to tell me the Eagles should deal with Peters the same way the Raiders should deal with McClain? If you are Peters should at least get THE YEAR THE NEW RAIDERS REGIME GAVE THAT MCCLAIN WHO NEVER REACHED THE HEIGHTS IN HIS CAREER THAT PETERS HAS. Just sayin...
  • And we were LATE in making the move to cut McClain. I'm not saying the Eagles should cut Peters, but to borrow a page, The raiders discipline problems GOT SO BAD because they weren't checked EARLY ON. After a point it even extended onto the field (both practice and game). Real discipline does not come with a valve. It can't be something thought of as optional.

    As a person who's played a sport, been in education, and handled live audiences I've found there is a common thread among all three: If you don't establish control of large groups early, you will lose it permanently. Don't believe me, ask Hue Jackson, Lane Kiffin, Art Shell, Norv Turner and Joe Bugel.

    And by your estimation, Andy Reid.
  • Nice point flip. Now why don't we wait until he's LEGALLY capable of handing our discipline, before we compare him to Joe Bugel? Better yet how about we not condemn him a failure before he coaches his first game? Quite ironic you condemn him as a failure, but somehow Dennis Allen and his decision to KEEP MCCLAIN TO GO WITH HIS 4-12 RECORD ARE SOME KIND OF SUCCESS?????
  • Once Nick Roach became available, Coach cut McClain. And Kelly isn't a failure. Yet.
  • I can accept "yet" flip. As far as I'm concerned Kelly isn't a success or a failure yet.
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