August 15, 2013

Vick Verses Foles....

It's not that I found Mike to be very special in this game, but frankly he's outplayed all the competition. Foles still moves the football, but he's the one who's been plagued with some terrible turnovers and bad decisions and not Mike Vick. Mike Vick's interception was the type of turnover a coach could live with. Nick's turnover simply wasn't. If this is a competition for this job, then at this point I can see no other way for Kelly to go than to Mike Vick. The bottom line is Foles had a big opportunity to take this job over tonight, and he threw away his opportunity, but I will give him credit for once again bouncing back after making a critical mistake. Unfortunately for him Mike isn't making nearly as many mistakes. Still Mike makes me cringe every time I see him running with the ball and refusing to slide. He isn't going to last a full season doing that.

77 Comments:
  • Seems like it's Vick's job to lose until he inevitably gets injured at some point during the season.
  • Maybe that's the case. I'm not sure though. I think this offense surprisingly reduces the amount of hits he takes with a lot of quick passes. He still doesn't know how to slide though and that's frustrating to watch. Guys are still getting some chances to tee off on him. When he made that run near the end zone I was a little concerned that he might not get up. He has to "do a better job" of protecting his body when he runs.
  • That is absolutely the case. One full season in 10 years of football...the man will get hurt at some point this year...just part of why I'd still prefer them moving on. I don't guarantee much but I stated it earlier and I'm pretty sure we will see one or the other or both. Vick getting sloppy with his play and/or him getting hurt...it's bound to happen.

    I do agree with what you have stated though. Vick has looked incredible (been there, done that) and Foles has made too many mistakes. Two bobbles on snaps last night that seemed to be all his fault and then a forced attempt to try and hurry the ball out of the back of the endzone...that just can't be done. Vick won the competition in my opinion but I'll be stunned if he is still the man standing by week 17...and even then I'm not going to be doing cartwheels if he is unless this offense continues to improve with him under center. The cracks started showing in the foundation towards the end of 2010 and the Eagles still gave him a 100 million dollar contract...don't want to see anything close to that happen again.
  • I can't see a guy receiving three 100 million dollar contracts LOL. Looks like somebody brought back trollbound.
  • I want what's best for the team. I don't mean to sound like a downer by any means. An attempted playoff run won't do much good if you fall short or barely get in only to get your backsides handed to you by the likes of a Green Bay or whomever the high seed is; thereby ruining your draft pick. However, you don't want to just give up on the season.

    God I'm torn. I'd love to see Chip crank out some real magic, but at the same time I just don't see a franchise QB on this roster. I'm not about to fall for that 2010 Michael Vick mirage twice.
  • Mike under center makes no sense if they don't believe
    they are ready to compete now. 7-9 isn't competing, and this
    defense better get much better if they are planning to make
    a run.
  • 7-9 also also puts guys a franchise QB in the draft out of the question too. Guys like Bridgewater and Boyd will be top 4 easily.
  • That all depend on the years that they have. You just never know but you are probably right. I saw an article that had Mariota a possibly to be drafted by the Eagles if he declares early. Seems that QB could be extremely deep in 2014. A QB that fits what Kelly wants to do could be around when they draft even if they have a .500 year especially with how top heavy the draft looks with some highly talented players. Stating that, I wish the Eagles would have simply walked away from Vick at the start of the Kelly era.
  • Mariota was another possibility I've considered. You gotta admit it makes a lot of sense. Chip probably knows him better than anyone having coached him already. Plus I've already heard Mariota being called a Kaepernick clone. Hell who wouldn't want want a clone of that guy?
  • Foles will be fine off the bench. He will be better respected accepting a backup role. Its over.
  • Better respected ACCEPTING a backup role? Sure, that is what most NFL players respect...someone willing to accept a backup role. LOL.
  • Really? Do you think rookie and 1st year QBs talk in NE and Balto that they are taking those QB jobs? For that matter they dont even do it in places like KC.
  • If you haven't paid attention...the last few months there was a QB competition that the coach deemed necessary...not Nick Foles. Again, you looking at things in your own strange way.
  • [not displayed: comment from locked account]
  • First Kelly hasn't deemed this competition to be over. Second Vick shouldn't feel complacent by any means. I think in two games Kelly's offense has proven it can move the football regardless of who's behind center so if Mick starts reverting back to the guy that frustrates us to no end, I don't think Kelly is hitched to him to the point that he will take a long time to bench him. No one truly believes Mike will last the season. One way or another people think he will find time on the bench. I hope that isn't true. Mike's success likely means Eagles success, and that's all that really matters now.
  • If Vick falters I'd much rather see it before they give him another extension...in my opinion he always get's complacent (Ike Reese feels that is what happened the last two years). He did in Atlanta and threw just about EVERYTHING away and he already did once in Philly...I'm having a hard time believing the light finally went on at 33 (not thrilled with his admission that he just fell back in love with football again). If he is starting to make mistakes (or getting banged up) by the end of this year I sure hope The Eagles don't make their own mistake...AGAIN! I know that is a long ways away but this was my worst fear going into this year...a couple preseason games where he has looked very good doesn't do much to quell that.
  • One thing the Eagles could do if they aren't sure if Foles or Barkley are ready would be to franchise him, although I think his contract is really a three year deal.
  • [not displayed: comment from locked account]
  • I heard one of the hosts on WIP mention it a couple days ago...here's the link from the Philadelphia Daily News. It's nice to know that he loves football again but a little bothersome that he stopped loving it in the first place.

    http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/eaglespreview/A-confident-Michael-Vick-I-fell-in-love-with-the-game-again.html
  • I don't want to make excuses for the guy, but lets be honest here. I don't think anyone was in love with what's been happening around here lately. Philly football was tragic. The players were completely uninspired, and the coach was a lame duck. A guy dies in training camp, and the Dream Team became a nightmare. If I were him I think I would lose my passion too.
  • Part of that was due to a quarterback leading the team that was sloppy with the ball and refused to learn how to slide and take care of himself. You know me...I don't heap too much praise on one guy nor do I point the finger too often but Michael Vick WAS part of the problem that was happening the last couple years. Reid did him no favors but in 2011 (when he did the nosedive) I refuse to let go of the fact that Vick had a very good offensive line, one of the best backs in the league, a good receiving corps to start the season and still looked like crap. A 3rd round rookie with less than stellar physical skills was just as effective as he was last year...I just can't let that go. We'll see what happens.
  • Mike had plenty to do with the issues of the team there is no doubt about it. Ian doubtful he is going to make the necessary changes and sustain them, but I'm going to hope that he does. It's all we can do for now.
  • [not displayed: comment from locked account]
  • Hey Potter did you go back on your hands and knees crying for YB brass to give you your old job back of Internet stalker/toilet bowl cleaner?
  • Its Funny to me. We know Vick is a turn over machine but he has successfully fooled the world this preseason. 1st game Vick threw a pass that was deflected which I honestly look at as anything worse than we have had from Foles.

    Foles interception was meant for the stands his largest mistake is that he under threw it. Lets not make a big deal on it considering he doesn't even have a season of starting under his belt.. My point here is simple. BE PREPARED TO BE DISSAPOINTED BY VICK!!!

    if any one of you think he is going to turn into a good quarterback than you are only fooling yourself! I loved vick for 12 games in 2010 but in 12 games into the 2013 season, people will figure him out. He will get flustered. He will have passes defected, interceptions and fumbles.
  • Although I will not pretend to be a crusader for the Mike Vick cause, because quite frankly my natural instinct is that he will be a let down in some way; however, I do believe that some of the blame for Vick being figured out lies on the head coach. Andy did nothing to fix the problem, and he rarely ever made adjustments in game and alike. He was like a robot, constantly doing the same thing, expecting something to change, and when it didn't stating he has to do a better job. A coach is responsible for identifying the weaknesses of his players, shielding them from them while maximizing his strong points. Andy never was good at that.
  • what didn't Andy do? Should be your question. He changed offensive coordinators for Vick. He changed the offensive line multiple times. He changed his scheme to short passes. He made more changes to accommodate Vicks shortness and his low throws than any other Coach ever has.

    I will say this. Reid is to blame for not going Foles sooner
  • When did Andy change offensive coordinators for Vick? Marty was always the guy. Also Andy changed the blocking scheme by promoting Juan to defense and put in a guy who had no idea how to block for Vick, and put the responsibility on Vick to make the line adjustments. Blind leading the blind on that one. Tell me at what point did Reid devise a scheme that enabled more blocking to protect the corner blitz from Vick's left that dogged him most of his Eagles career?
  • Sorry, I was away this weekend and the freaking machine I was using to type was soo screwed up it messed me up. I meant: Offensive Coordinators.

    Vick sucked at the end of 2010 and the blame was put squarely on Juan if you don't remember. Reid went out and picked up the best Offensive line coach in the game to try and fix that issue. It didn't work.
  • Reid was the issue. He never fixed any of the problems, rather he created more by weakening both his offensive line and his defense by moving Juan to the defense. Look that isn't to say Vick wasn't to blame for a lot of what happened. I'm looking at things this way. Mike Vick won the job fair and square. Foles had his chance and he blew it. The better quarterback won this competition. It's time to move forward.
  • Name a place other than Philly where Foles would be battling for a starting job?
  • Oakland.
  • I dont think so. I thought Flynn looked pretty tough. I didnt see alot of him but he reminded me of Kitna. Thats not a bad comparison.
  • No it isn't. Kitna was lunch pail QB and became a heck of a game manager later in his career.

    I think if Foles was in Oakland he'd be in the mix for the job. I think if Reid was still the coach here the job should have been his.

    My saying that Vick should be the Starter was never a knock on Foles, as I've said before, in some systems he's a better option than Vick. It's just in the case of Kelly's system (and despite Kelly trying to hide it, it was clear it was going to be), Vick is the better choice for it.

    But yeah if Foles were in Oakland I think his moxie would earn him respect, the way Flynn's leadership is earning it for him.
  • I would agree with you to a certain extent but I think Flynn uses more of the field and has a more traditional delivery than Foles. Foles releases the ball to slow. He hasnt shown that he can be effective using the whole field and in games that count the opposition can shut him down in critical situations. The only QB on ou roster that can utilize the hole field is Vick and he sdoesnt exactly have alot of talent around him. Hopefully McCoy with the improved line will relieve pressure on Vick. If that happens and Chips offense is as good as advertised I think the Eagles will compete till the end.
  • I think we're going to compete until right around the end. I can see a 7-9 finish, and in this division if someone doesn't run away from the rest, that will be enough to keep us in the conversation until late November/December.

  • There is no doubt that Flynn was an interesting pick up in the offseason; However, are they running the West Coast offense?

    I'm pretty sure they are not, and Flynn works best in that style of short passing offense. The WR's in Oakland use their legs to spread the field and that calls for a QB w/ a great deep ball.

    Foles has a much better arm than Palmer or Flynn.

    7-9 would be a nice way to end the season. If your WR's don't get injured I think you have a chance at 6-10 though. You lost one of your best play makers in the off season and Flynn isn't exactly behind the best O-Line.

    That all said, I think if you keep Flynn and draft some guys around him to fit his needs this offseason, I think you could be contenders in 2014 / 2015.
  • That's largely where I am with it. I'm hoping for 6-10 more for the guys in the locker room who were there last year, so THEY have something solid to look to as a sign that what they're doing is working.

    From the outside it's all kinds of working! But for the guys who play, and take the beatings, and have to answer the same boring, stupid questions after a loss; come December/January it would be nice for them to be able to say "We weren't here last year" and have that as fuel to climb higher next year.

    As far as our offensive system you kind of hit it right on the head when you said WCO. The style we're using is the ORIGINAL WCO that's now called either Air Coryell, or as it was called under AL DAVIS the Vertical Attack. It's power running to set up deep passing on timed routes.

    You've seen the V.A. before. It's the system Aikman/Smith/Irvin/Novacek ran in Dallas; that Phillips/Tomlinson/Jackson/Gates ran in San Diego, both run by Norv Turner who is bringing it to Cleveland. Our version is being implemented by Greg Olson, who's had some success with power running systems before.
  • *** .. I flagged it.. I meant to like it LOL my bad
  • Oakland - matt Flynn is in his 4th season and you are saying he MIGHT be better than Foles right now.
    Arizona - Oakland actually got rid of of Carson Palmer. lol
    Jets - Mark Sanchez is beating out Geno Smith. Marc Sanchez!
    Kansas city - It's a pretty known fact Reid inquired about Foles from Kelly. Kelly said no. Reid turned to his Second choice (alex smith).
    Minnesota - Christian Ponder really better than Foles?
    Jaguars - Blaine Gabbert or Chad Henne.. Actually, let's combine them and they still suck.
  • No Eagle fan in the country should be happy about vick winning the job. It means a few things. 1. Foles never receives a chance to find out how good he really is. 2. Foles trade value heavily drops. 3. Vick wins us enough games so we won't have a top QB coming out of 2014 draft. 4. We are still with years away from seeing what we have with Barkley. 5. We start the 1 quarterback that we know has too many flaws in his game to ever win a superbowl.

    What made the competition interesting was simple. That it was as close as it was. Vick is the better QB right this moment, but with another 10 games behind Foles I simply can't imagine it.

    Personally for me I want to see how Vick does next week when he is facing a fresh defense that has seen how the chip Kelly offense runs! Watch hi screw up guaranteed.
  • Right now Vick is still better than Foles and I'm all for winning as many games as possible. It makes September-January a lot more enjoyable when we're competing for a playoff spot. Foles will get his shot eventually. He's the type of quarterback where easing him into the starting role will make him better.
  • Ive been saying that since day one.
  • [not displayed: comment from locked account]
  • If I were Vick I would ask for more money. Would serve management right.
  • If we see the postseason, he will. And you'd better believe he'll want guarantees.
  • The whole thing was for publicity. I mean some fans really wanted to sacrifice the season to get a look at Foles. Sacrifice for 1 player. a 3rd rounder yet. What a joke.
  • That's what I was saying when that "tank the season" talk was going around. Tanking a season to "see something"? I'm glad it's not happening.
  • I think Lurie knows with almost a certainty that a "looksie" will cost him in ticket sales and TV revenue. Tanking. Ive never heard of anything so proposterous.
  • [not displayed: comment from locked account]
  • Two big contracts and two lackadaisical approaches to football shortly after and all some can think about is can Vick win more games than any other QB candidate with the Eagles this year? We have watched what Vick brings to football for three years and what it's been is an 8-10 game stretch in 2010 and a few highlight reel plays every so often since then (and WAY too many mistakes). I'm not about to start thinking after two preseason games that Vick has all of a sudden turned the corner for good this time when it comes to football. Let the two barkers who think they had some great premonition that Vick will be the starter have their day. Most of us had a feeling it would be Vick starting...we just wanted to see Foles...hell some of us just wanted to see anybody but the man who will be injured sometime this season and/or who will most likely show us that once defenses start coming up with ways to slow him down again he will revert back to his old ways. Les Bowen has an article in the Daily News that discusses how this Vick "rebirth" and things that are being said by him and others closely resemble what was being said back in 2010...can you say deja vu? Honestly, it shows how far Vick has fallen that he was even in a QB competition with a 3rd round second year player who doesn't seem to fully fit Kelly's system. Then again, most of us weren't surprised that there was a QB competition being that we watched some pretty bad quarterback play for the last two years plus...the only two on here that seemed surprised by that are the two barkers who are now patting themselves and each other on the back for "predicting" Vick would be the starter.

  • [not displayed: comment from locked account]
  • Vick fans will keep bring up the injuries to the offensive line in 2012 and Reid's heavy pass calling while ignoring the fact that Foles went through the same and the rookie played at least on par with Vick (probably just a bit better honestly) last year. They also want to blame Reid for Vick's deficiencies while ignoring that it was Reid that made Vick's very good 8-10 game stretch in 2010 possible by having his coaching staff teach him how to become a better QB. Another thing ignored is that Vick had a very good offense line and one of the best running backs in the league in 2011 and still played like crap. Nothing but a bunch of excuses instead of just looking at where the sloppy play originates from...Mike Vick.
  • Who said "Tank the season"

    I'll wait

    It's my opinion that starting Vick is they best way to Tank the season. Not Foles
  • We discussed how starting Vick would at best give the Eagles a couple more wins and how it would serve the Eagles best to not worry about those wins, seeing how the young QBs look and if they couldn't get the job done to set themselves up with a better chance to draft one of the QBs next year in what looks like a deep class. I don't think anyone said anything about "tanking" besides Hollywood and flip who are obviously for starting Vick and winning as many games as Vick can halep the team win this year. If getting a franchise QB in the 2014 draft means a couple less wins this year I'm all for it. "Tanking" to me is the Eagles players and their coaches doing whatever they can to lose as many games as possible and no one on here suggested that...we just realize that Vick won't be the difference in a playoff berth. Some of us are just more worried about year 2 and 3 of Kelly's tenure and less in year 1 when they have a slim to no chance of doing anything of significance.
  • personally I think Vick could win them 2 more games in the beginning of the season that the Eagles might not win w/ Foles.. But Foles in my eyes definitely gives them better results as the season goes on..

    But that's my opinion. I'm pretty high on Foles. I think he has been a smart QB. Even the Interception he threw in the last game. It was a smart play and a bad throw.

    I think Foles will stop making the bad throws.
  • [not displayed: comment from locked account]
  • We watched Vick for 3 seasons as an Eagle and many seasons as a Falcon.

    I've seen enough to know 2010 was a mirage and i'm beyond past moving on. Like you said, We know what we have with Vick. Why Chip Kelly decided to make him the starter, god only knows.

    For some reason people tend to have short memories in the NFL when it comes to Quarterbacks. People pretend like Vick hasn't run this type of offense before. Like this is the one way he can finally fit in.

    Truth is, Vick has run VERY similar offenses in Atlanta. "2006: The Atlanta Falcons and quarterback Michael Vick copy the West Virginia read-option spread offense."

    Read Option was the main plan of attack for the Atlanta offense in 2006. He ran for the most Yards in that system as a QB that year ( i believe before being injured ) His team also went like 5 and 11
  • Absolutely right, Zukny. The funny thing is that I started typing my post above before Kelly made his official announcement although I knew it was coming...not thrilled with it but I obviously saw it coming. In my opinion Kelly had no choice...he deemed it a competition and Vick has played better...for now. This competition may be over but the choice can't be critiqued fully until after the season is over...if Vick makes it through the season healthy and is looking incredible still in week 17 it will be hard to criticize...Vick's career (especially 2010) make me almost certain that isn't going to happen.
  • Match fixing, more specifically when a competitor deliberately loses without gambling being involved. Zuckny get used to it. Season #4 with Vick mirage and all.
  • How is seeing what the Eagles have in Foles deliberately losing? Another one of your reaches! Regardless, Vick won the competition whether some of us on here like it or not...Kelly's the coach and Vick is his man. No excuses though if Vick "tanks" the season with 15-20 turnovers this year, okay Hollywood? Let's not read how the NFL, his coaches and his players all want to see him hurt or out of the league. How about a little truth this year from you instead of conspiracies?
  • hollywood really just wants the eagles to lose. Hence his love for vick
  • you mean the one where Reids son is a distributor of steroids and was living in the Eagle training facility. Just carrying them around cause he likes them with his cereal and coffee?
  • No, at least that one has a little truth to it. Like the one I just stated. You whining that Reid, the league and offensive line were allowing Vick to take shots to get him hurt...Like you stating that Jeff Lurie is a racist when there is absolutely nothing linking him to that and his history shows that your claims aren't even close to fact...that Donovan McNabb threw the Super Bowl just so TO wouldn't win the MVP trophy. Your claims are lame and just make you look foolish but I know me telling you that won't stop you...it's just the what you do...you obviously can't stop yourself.
  • sadly, these are the type of people that call up 94.1 WIP and 97.5 and I get to listen to that type of intellect all the time.

    For example: Everyone keeps saying "What a big mistake Foles made" w/ the interception.

    However, no one points out that he made the right decision and simply under threw the ball. He has constantly made good decisions..

    Another favorite:
    Vick is a perfect fit in this offense. He finally get's to run the offense he was suited for LOL

    Stupid people have me annoyed
  • People are always going to say that about Vick. There will alway be the group that will excuse all of his mistakes and blame them on everyone else regardless of what he does. Those same people will blame every mistake on Foles regardless if the mistake is his fault or not. With that being the case I think you are minimizing the series of mistakes by Foles. He's has three fumbles in about five series of football ( two on the same drive), he's had two turnovers in that same time, most importantly his poor attempt to trow the ball away cost the team points. I don't care how much you may want Foles to start, giving up points in the NFL is unacceptable, and as far as this competition went Foles wasn't the better guy. Mike Vick deserves to start.
  • You forgot to add...because Chip Kelly gave him the opportunity to compete. After the last two plus years of football Vick deserved a ticket out of town. Hey, when the regular season starts I'll do my best to watch what I type and say and allow him prove me wrong...I was skeptical for a while in 2010 but I came around...it's going to take a hell of a lot more than a couple preseason games to get me there this time.



    Zukny, Hollywood isn't a true Eagle fan...he's a fan of his strange comments and a big fan of his predictions...Vick having success in Philadelphia being one of them.
  • Green you have to remember that we have seen Vick fail, but Kelly hasn't seen it. He's giving Vick a clean slate, and until Vick reverts back to the turnover machine he was, or gets injured, he (in Kelly's mind) deserves a chance. There's nothing wrong with him getting a chance if the intentions of the team is to win right now. Ironically I have serious doubts the team has any plans on drafting a future QB. I think they believe they can move the ball with the guys they have. Next seasons priority may not be quarterback.
  • He made the right read but the ball didnt get there. Guess what Zuckny thats called a bad pass.
  • You can't give points for effort, then dock Vick when he screws up. Mike does give his all out there. The fact is neither player deserves excuses. The bottom line is Vick won the job. Regardless if people like it, love it, or hate it that's the fact. It's time to move forward.
  • Although I didn think the competition was necessary in the end Foles will be a better player for it. He knows to get to that level he must perform even better. It will keep him motivated and I suspect when he gets an oppotunity next time he will be better than the last. He needs to chill out now and do what #2s do and thats completely hand teh reign s over to the #1. He shouldnt make any inferences except that he will be ready when called on but that Mikes the starter. End of discussion lets talk about some defense!
  • I could careless about what Foles does at this point, but as the backup to Mike Vick he would be wise to always be ready to get into the game, because Mike is almost certain to be injured at any point. All Foles needs to focus on is being ready when his number is called, because we all know Mike's difficulties with staying healthy.
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