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Found July 16, 2008 on Hot Stove Philly: Yardbarker Blogger Network
A New Holliday In Philadelphia?
TEAMS: Seattle Mariners,  Toronto Blue Jays,  Philadelphia Phillies,  Colorado Rockies,  Chicago Cubs,  Milwaukee Brewers
PLAYERS: Matt Holliday,  Brad Lidge,  Brian Fuentes,  Kris Benson,  Brett Myers,  Jimmy Rollins,  Jason Bay,  Randy Wolf,  Bronson Arroyo,  Adrian Cardenas,  Carlos Carrasco,  AJ Burnett,  Jarrod Washburn,  Erik Bedard,  Ryan Howard
Everyone knows that the Phillies are in the market for a legitimate starting pitcher, especially after their National League rivals the Chicago Cubs and Milwaukee Brewers made serious acquisitions last week. They have been trying to work out a deal for Erik Bedard from the Seattle Mariners, and have expressed interest in A.J. Burnett, Bronson Arroyo, Jarrod Washburn, and Randy Wolf. As you can tell, there isn't a lot out there in terms of premier pitching talent, with arguably Bedard being the only bona fide ace. Phillies GM Pat Gillick has publicly stated that the Phillies are not willing to part with the few top prospects they have in their farm team for less than acceptable pitching. That basically means they are going to make a deal for Bedard, or they're just going to stick with the pitching they have, unless they can convince a team to deal a "B" or "C" list pitcher for lesser prospects. It appears that as a result the Phillies have turned their sights onto acquiring a significant offensive upgrade. One name that has been out there as being on the block is Pirates' outfielder Jason Bay, who has struggled over the past two seasons but has shown that he is capable of some serious offensive numbers. However, it was reported Wednesday on ESPN Radio 950 Philadelphia by host Jody Mac that the Phillies are in talks with the Colorado Rockies about what it would take to bring stud outfielder Matt Holliday to Philadelphia. Before you get excited, if the Phillies were to make a trade for Holliday, it would most likely require most, if not all, of the team's top prospects, including Carlos Carasco or Adrian Cardenas. That being said, a guy like Holliday could be worth it. This year he is batting .337 with 14 home runs and 51 RBIs. In addition, he has 13 stolen bases and 42 walks. Last year Holliday was the runner up to Jimmy Rollins for the NL MVP when he hit .340 with 36 home runs and 137 RBIs. The addition of Holliday would solidify the Phillies offense as the best in the majors. Unfortunately, adding Holliday will do nothing to help the Phillies' pitching needs. Opening day starter Brett Myers is set to return to the Phillies on July 23rd and former No. 1 pick Kris Benson continues to progress through the majors and could join the Phillies in early August. In a deal for Holliday, the Phillies could also acquire former Rockies' closer Brian Fuentes. He would provide the much needed second left arm in the bullpen and would serve as the team's primary set up man. Fuentes could also give closer Brad Lidge a day off every few games. He has 99 career saves in his seven plus year career. One possibility is that the Phillies could try to trade slugger Ryan Howard for a premier pitcher. By putting Howard on the market, it would open up the market to players not previously available for a trade. Howard has shown, to me at least, a glaring lack of interest to stay in Philadelphia after his contract expires in 2011. He has taken the Phillies to arbitration the past two seasons, winning a $10 million contract this past off season. Howard is currently leading the league in home runs and RBIs. Over the past month he hit a very respectable .284. This is the best opportunity to trade Howard as the Phillies will get the biggest return on him. If they wait, they'll end up losing him with no return, or having to trade him with a gun to their head with a much less significant return. I say trade Howard now for that premier pitcher, or a set of top prospects to replace those lost by trading for Holliday. The time is now for the Phillies to win. The National League is the weakest it has been in years. There are only a handful of legitimately good teams, such as Chicago, Milwaukee, Arizona, the Mets, and maybe the Cardinals. The Phillies need to strike while the iron is hot and get done the deals that will put them in a position to compete and win this year.
Original Story: http://www.hotstovephilly.com/2008/07... Verified_ybn

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Comments (41)
  • Placard_complete_small

    tcbailey24 said July 16, 2008

    I'm hoping the Cards can reel in Fuentes to help out the bullpen

  • Bunson said July 16, 2008

    The phillies won't trade Howard in my opinion. The only reason he went to arbitration was because he was set to make the near minimum? I may be wrong...
  • LILEAGLE
    Placard_complete_small

    LILEAGLE said July 16, 2008

    i don't think they'll trade howard either!!! maybe burell or victorino. we should've kept lohse from last season and kept meyers in the pen as set up man for lidge!!! manuel loves stayong loyal to flash though!!! hope we can get holliday it may bring the pennant back to philly!!! tc dude i hope the red birds don't cause i have spot in my heart for the cubbies...LOL!!!!
    • Placard_complete_small

      tcbailey24 replied July 16, 2008

      well think about this , the Cards have Lohse this year and he is 11-2 right now and if we get Fuentes, it would stablize the pen
      • LILEAGLE
        Placard_complete_small

        LILEAGLE replied July 16, 2008

        the cards pitching staff has great coaches!!! they got that touch!!! i was sad to see lohse go knew he'd be a 15-20 game winner if the red birds got him!!! fuentes will put a nail on your division for you!!!
  • bleedgreen7591

    bleedgreen7591 said July 16, 2008

    Will you guys get this through your heads, they will not trade Ryan Howard. The big three are what put asses in the seats and they know that, they will not trade Ryan Howard. Just because he isn't good on your fantasy team doesn't mean he's not good on an actual team.
  • bleedgreen7591

    bleedgreen7591 said July 16, 2008

    and are you calling Arizona a good team?
  • philly5

    philly5 said July 16, 2008

    bleedgreen - you're absolutely correct about putting people in the seats and Howard who puts the most in the seats. Not to take anything away from one of the best pure players in the game (Utley) and my personal favorite (Rollins) but the Big guy who hits lots of homers and puts up ridiculous production numbers gets the most asses in the seat. And let's not paint a negative picture of Howard because he pushed for a heftier contract. ALL ATHLETES DO THAT IN TODAYS SPORTS! And had he not won his arbitration, no one would rip him at all. He was one of the first to win so much as his stage but he pushed for 10mil. There's LOTS of players in this league who make significantly more. That's today's sports world.

  • jrizza said July 16, 2008

    We're not getting Holliday. No shot. His stats aren't even that good away from Colorado (most of his homers come at home - one of the easiest, if not the easiest, places in the league to hit em.

    Hate to say it, but there's not a move I've heard that I'd make. None of the available pitchers are worth giving up the young guys, and the price for the offensive pieces is way too high. If the Phils are gonna get it done this year, they're going to have to improve, get consistent, and make it happen themselves. I think they're a second half team, and I think they'll come out on a mission.

    Bretty Myers, if you're out there, we need you man.
    • ursportspro
      Placard_complete_small

      ursportspro replied July 16, 2008

      CBP isn't exactly a tough place to hit the ball out of either....

      • jrizza replied July 17, 2008

        but the air up their, man...

  • sportsislife said July 16, 2008

    i would not be upset either way if we did or did not trade howard i would be upset if we got crap for him though, but the more likely trade is pitching imagine this pitching rotation
    1.hamels
    2.burnett/bedard
    3.kendrick
    4.moyer
    5.carrasco
    • DTRIK19
      Placard_complete_small

      DTRIK19 replied July 17, 2008

      Your rotation makes absolutely no sense. Burnett/Bedard/Moyer won't be around when Carrasco makes it up to the bigs. You make it seem like he'll be called up this season to be an every 5th day starter....he's in AA, not near ready yet.
  • Zukny1

    Zukny1 said July 16, 2008

    Lets look at who the Phillies can lose and still not have any dent in the team. Right now Werth has the abilitiy to be a great player, and yet he keeps sharing time. Trading away prospects doesnt bother me, because i want a championship!. Also Carlos Ruiz just hasnt been helpful, I think Coste can take over full time. * personally*

    So this is what we do , Trade Victorino, Trade these Decent prospects, or even Ruiz. land us Bedard.

    If the phillies get bedard i think they are unstoppable, IT would be nice to have another hitter ( because no one is batting 300 right now on the phillies )not nearly the hitting team we were last year.

    This team needs some type of spark
  • Zukny1

    Zukny1 said July 16, 2008

    Dont forget, Fantasy peoples were saying that this year was going to be Brett Myers year! I dont want to trade him for dirt, HE just hasnt re kindled what he had.

    The man is going to be grreat in the future, and i really hope we dont trade him for nothing.
  • Orphan

    Orphan said July 16, 2008

    Howard isn't good on the Phillies either. He strikes out too much, doesn't walk, and isn't a team leader. If they got Holliday, he would fill the seats just as much as Howard. They need to strike while the iron is hot.

    • Eaglesklexo replied July 17, 2008

      LOL!!! UM Howard leads the League in Homers and RBI'S .......Last time I checked the point of baseball was to score Runs. Yeah lets get rid of one of our best players that will really help us win an championship. Howard is not going anywhere and he did the right thing by going to arbitration. He earned his money and there was no way the phillies should have paid him what they were paying him.
    • DTRIK19
      Placard_complete_small

      DTRIK19 replied July 17, 2008

      He PRODUCES you idiot!!! He hits homers, drives in a ton of runs and is our best hitter with RISP. No wonder you're an orphan.
  • bdnookie

    bdnookie said July 17, 2008

    Ryan has 48 walks as of the All Star break, so I wouldn't necessarily say he never walks. Eric Bedard is injury-prone and has been despised by his teammates in Baltimore and Seattle. He managed to turn the city og Seattle against him, which is no easy feat. He takes himself out of games after 90-95 pitches, and while he is one of the best pitchers in the game, you have to consider the fact that the guy hates the media, is aloof with fans, and has a history or injuries. Trading Ryan Howard would have a negligible effect on ticket sales in my opinion, if the trade landed us players that could contribute to a deep run in the playoffs and contend for a WS for the next 3 years.
  • bdnookie

    bdnookie said July 17, 2008

    While Ryan does belt spectacular home runs, the reason the team is selling out CBP has to do with the fact that they are a likeable team that is in first place and plays hard. Ryan is certainly part of that, but the fact remains that he has not embraced the city or franchise as of yet, his father is his agent (Eric Lindros), and all signs point to him going to arbitration each year to keep his options open to go to the AL and be a DH in 3 years. If I were Pat Gillick, I would seriously shop Ryan now because his value is at his highest, and if you could land a Matt Holliday and Fuentes for Carrasco/Victorino/more prospects while also getting good prospects and contributors back for Howard, there is an argument to be made that this team would be great not just this year but for the foreseeable future
  • bdnookie

    bdnookie said July 17, 2008

    bottom line; Utley and Rollins are the Phillies heart and soul, not Ryan. The teams that have had the most success recently are the ones who play sound defensively and small ball, teams that generate runs through speed and timely hitting.

    • Eaglesklexo replied July 17, 2008

      Yeah apparently the league leader in RBI's isn't that important. Who needs to score runs. I mean our pitching is so great that we don't need all of Howards RBI'S and Homers
    • bleedgreen7591

      bleedgreen7591 replied July 17, 2008

      Yeah, okay, lets go get a pitcher for RyHo and see that pitcher win games with no run support.
  • BirdsFan536
    Placard_complete_small

    BirdsFan536 said July 17, 2008

    rollins has shown me nothing this year.....howard leads the mlb in HRs and NL in RBI's....adding holliday would make our offense rediculous but we do need pitching bad..fuentes would be good and even if we could get an alright starter with holliday and fuentes we would be a great team
    • DTRIK19
      Placard_complete_small

      DTRIK19 replied July 17, 2008

      I'm sure Jimmy loses sleep at night knowing he has shown you nothing this year. He's had a rough time coming back after his ankle injury. Hes been a guy who doesn't get hurt so that was new for him, he'll be more than fine down the stretch.
      • BirdsFan536
        Placard_complete_small

        BirdsFan536 replied July 17, 2008

        i wasnt taking a shot at rollins dont jump the gun, i basically said exactly what u said, and after his injury he hasnt done anything....thats all i was saying...he hasnt done much this year regardless of the reason thats all i was saying....bottom line he hasnt produced this year
  • bdnookie

    bdnookie said July 17, 2008

    I predict Rollins is going to go on a tear the second half. Call me crazy

  • fightinirish42 said July 17, 2008

    If we get Holliday, our offense will be the most feared in the majors. Especially if Rollins picks things up, and 1 of our top prospects, catcher Lou Marson, gets called up. Our lineup could look like this: 1. Rollins 2. Utley 3. Holliday 4. Howard 5. Burrell 6. Victorino 7. Feliz 8. Marson..... that lineup could do SO much damage we wouldn't even need another ace!
  • birdsrule
    Placard_complete_small

    birdsrule said July 17, 2008

    I would love the Phillies to get Holliday.I thought this was only my thought or pie in the sky idea. :)
  • DTRIK19
    Placard_complete_small

    DTRIK19 said July 17, 2008

    Yea thats great, trade away your future for a guy you won't be able to resign in the future! It'll be hard enough to lock up one (should be) All Star outfielder in Burrell, let alone 2.

  • singleh88 said July 17, 2008

    Sportslife is right. Get a pitcher, cut Adam Eaton, bring up Carrasco, and that's that. Trading Howard makes no sense, unless its for Roy Halladay. Even then I'm not so sure. HE LEADS THE MAJORS IN HOMERUNS AND RBI'S. I mean, are you kidding me? Sure he strikes out a ton. But, HE LEADS THE MAJORS IN HOMERUNS AND RBI'S. These guys don't come around that often. Pitching is what always comes out on top. Focus on that.
    • DTRIK19
      Placard_complete_small

      DTRIK19 replied July 17, 2008

      Cut Eaton and eat the rest of his contract? Yea that makes sense. Carrasco is not near ready to be called up yet. You can't rush a top prospect because the big league club needs help. You risk ruining his entire career.

      • singleh88 replied July 17, 2008

        If you read what the Phillies scouts have been saying, you would know he is ready to come up in their opinion. And yes, eating his K is better than marching him out there every 5 days. Plus, he would likely sign with someone, thereby helping out with the $$ owed. And yes, you can rush him to help the club if that is what it takes to win right now.

  • msw3333 said July 17, 2008

    Why do you people think that scoring lots of runs is what wins games? It isn't about how many you score, it's about when you score them. Here's an example of 3 games: W 3-2, W 5-4, W-7-6 vs. L 7-4, W 11-1, L 4-3. In the first example the team scored 14 runs in 3 games (only 5 rpg) while winning all 3 games. In the second example the team scored 18 runs in 3 games (6 rpg) and lost w of the 3 games. In both series the opposing team only scored 12 runs, but the tea who scored the timely runs won the game even though they didn't light up the scoreboard. Winning a baseball games is done through PRODUCING timely runs not SCORING lots of runs. People think that the Phillies offense is a top 3 offense in the league because they score a lot of runs, but in reality they don't score timely runs. We are 8 games over .500 and have a +78 run differential. That shows that we score lots of runs, but not timely runs. On the other hand, the D-Backs last year finished with a -20 run differntial, but won 90 games. They scored clutch runs and had the best team in the NL because they produced runs with speed and a small ball type of attitude.
  • Cultdiese

    Cultdiese said July 17, 2008

    Has anyone actually been watching what Carrasco is actually doing in AA ball right now??? If you are (which you obviously arent) youd be insane to suggest to bring him up to the big club at this time. Lets let him pitch SUCCESSFULLY at MINIMUM in AA ball before we even think about bringing him up. Damn people get crazy any time theres a trade rumor out there. The Phils need to do whatever they can to get AJ Burnett if we can swing a trade without Carrasco/Cardenas being involved in the deal. Offense is the LAST thing Gillick should be worrying about at this time...
    • DTRIK19
      Placard_complete_small

      DTRIK19 replied July 17, 2008

      I'll pass on Burnett's 12 million/year contract...Blantons of the same caliber and will cost 1/3 the price

      • PhillyFan83 replied July 17, 2008

        Blanton is definitely not of the same caliber, but is definitely the better option since he will be much cheaper than Burnett.
  • Cultdiese

    Cultdiese said July 17, 2008

    Im not saying Burnett is the answer but Blanton?? Ugh just what we need a pitcher who leads the league in losses with a 4.98 ERA. Granted Burnetts ERA is around the same this season, Blanton is not what he was once considered to be. With Toronto's horrible offense, Burnett still managed 10 wins to this point. Theres no A-list pitchers out there, and Burnett is definately the best available.
  • Cultdiese

    Cultdiese said July 17, 2008

    But i guess a career .500 pitcher is still an upgrade from what we got. Your right, the Phils arent paying 12+mil for Burnett. No way this teams going to win it this year, they should have made something happen before the season started, everyone knew what was going to happen. Eaton is no magician, hes not going to magically turn into a decent pitcher, and if he was a magician, I wish he'd make himself disappear...
  • Cultdiese

    Cultdiese said July 17, 2008

    Ugh shouldnt have said anything, there goes cardenas for your boy dtrik...Were sure a contender now with one less prospect and another average at best starter whose 27 and looks like an obese 45 year old. Hope this pans out well, seeing as to how we give up another highly regarded prospect for a career .500 pitcher who has the most loses in the MLB this year. This better work, because I dont see it being beneficial in the long run, with that being said I pray that Im wrong.
  • jsatwood

    jsatwood said July 17, 2008

    Holliday would be a serious upgrade over what's in right field right now. He would solidify the Phillies as the top offense in the majors. If they traded Howard, they could get enough prospects to enable them to go out and get a real pitcher.
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