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• GETusJUST1 said January 21, 2008

  I think $7 mill is a fair deal. The man is powerlicious, but MLB record for K's? That is not a good tag to have. He struggled alot early due to that thigh injury, and was noticeably better after that, but he's only a 3rd year player, and even though an MVP and ROY, I dont think standards whould be set based on him. He should take the 7 mill and play his heart out this year to earn more money for the future. Of course, its different when an agent is barking in your ear (because they get a %). Then things become alot more complicated.

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• GETusJUST1 said January 21, 2008

  CORRECTION- **should be set based on him**

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• GMCarson said January 22, 2008

  Howard is "powerlicious" and that's precisely why I want him around through 2011 and perhaps beyond, but we truly have no idea how he'll hold up physically until then...probably a strong DH candidate come 32-33 years old.

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• wildboark said January 22, 2008

  The Phils are turning Howard into another Scott Rolen with their low ball offers. They may have already caused Howard to become disgruntled when they gave him the $900,000 last year. Even though they could not get a long term deal done at the time they could have given him $1,000,000. But their refusal to upset the other owners has already started having a detrimental effect on Howard. I predict that Howard will never sign a contract with the Phils. He will go to arbitration every year until he is eligible for free agency and then he is gone. Thank God these owners weren't around when Mike Schmidt was playing.

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  • GMCarson replied January 22, 2008

    Maybe you're right in your assessment of the contract situation...but maybe come the season of 2012 Ryan Howard won't be such the prolific slugger he is. With that said, I'd still feel better if he were locked up through then.
• GETusJUST1 said January 22, 2008

  The Phillies are playing this the politically correct way and even though we're fans, you have to try to see their point of view. Yes, he is a possible hall-of-famer at this pace and yes, he is a great clubhouse presence, but when you change precedents set in any league, business, government, there will be many detractors. You might say, "well who cares?" And I agree, who cares, treat your players to what they have earned. But keep in mind that in the future, when there is a mutually beneficial trade on the table, or could be one, if you've pissed off too many owners, that doesnt bode well for your dealings. I'm sure they look at the big picture.
  
  I still say F-it, lock him up for 7 years, give him around what Chase got, and focus on locking down the rest of the field with All-Star players.

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• GMCarson said January 22, 2008

  5 years 65-70 mil I offer.

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• GETusJUST1 said January 22, 2008

  Thats a good deal for the all-time SO king. I agree.

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• stevec said January 23, 2008

  personally love how people against Howard getting paid $10 mil refer to the Pujols salary comparison. They typically reference him (Pujols) receiving what was then,and still is the largest amount offered to a player in his first year of arbitration, $7 million. Supposedly this is some magical barrier that should not be broken through, even though that barrier was erected FOUR YEARS AGO.
  According to THAT logic, Pujols should have only received what was the highest total for a 1st year arb player was, up to THAT point. But NO, the Cards saw the value of this player and showed their respect and appreciation by extendeding him the unprecedented $7 million offer.
  Is NO ONE ever going be allowed to break that ceiling? How many years should go by before even an adjustment for inflation comes into play? If Howard can't break the ceiling with a ROY and MVP under his belt, who WILL be worthy?
  Slightly below average defensively, yes. Strikes out a lot, yes (like his MVP year of 181 k's). Do the K's affect his production? Logic would say yes, but Jesus Christ, if you're getting REAL production thats lead the MAJORS (for the last 2 years) in RBI and HRS(a lot of walks too), from your clean up spot, what more do you want?
  Its almost like complaining about why your center(in basketball) has a problem with steals or bringing the ball down the court well, but leads everyone in the league in blks and points scored. In my opinion, you're missing the forest for the trees

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• GMCarson said January 23, 2008

  SteveC- I hear your argument loud and clear- but is 4 years of "inflation" worth 3 million dollars? Like I said before, it would be best for the Phils to throw a 4 or 5 year contract out on the table to avoid this ugly mess of arbitration.

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• GMCarson said January 23, 2008

  ESPN's Keith Law has some good info up on his personal blog. I have always wondered about this stuff. In the post, Law discusses how little sense it makes for the Phillies to pay Ryan Howard more than his service time calls for. But also in the comments Law explains which players Howard's agent can compare him to for an arbitration hearing.
  
  Law says:
  
  For comparison purposes, a player may be compared to players in the same "service class" in the current year or in prior years, and third- and fourth-time eligibles may be compared to free agents who have signed in the current year or in prior years. Single-year salaries are more powerful comparisons than multi-year deals, since the individual salaries within a multi-year deal may be skewed due to bonuses, backloading, or other factors.
  
  Law notes that Howard's comp could be Miguel Cabrera, who made $7.4MM last year. Howard logically deserves more than that based on a stat comparison, making the Phillies' $7MM submission seem low.
  
  *I may be wrong in this case after all, maybe the Phils are being cheapskate bastards.
  

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