Found July 17, 2012 on Pirates Prospects:
Mlb_apr_24_7341

So far the morning trade rumors today surround Justin Upton. Not much is new in the talks, although Jon Morosi of FOX Sports takes a detailed look at the Pittsburgh Pirates.

Morosi says that the Pirates have remained in contact with Arizona. He notes that Neal Huntington has refused to part with Starling Marte or Jameson Taillon, although the former is counter to what we heard Sunday, with reports saying the Pirates would deal Marte.

Morosi made a few about the Pirates that I don’t really agree with. He stressed that they need to make a move for reasons like Joey Votto and Zack Greinke being hurt, owing it to fans, and to end their losing streak. Those types of outside factors shouldn’t dictate a deal. It doesn’t make sense to deal because Joey Votto is lost for a month. That hurts Cincinnati, but doesn’t change the Pirates. In fact, it helps the Pirates, since the Reds will be missing their best player for a month. You could use that to argue that there’s less of a need to make a deal. I’m not saying the Pirates don’t need to make a deal. I’m just saying they shouldn’t be desperate, and these reasonings sound more like desperation deals, rather than smart moves.

The bigger argument was what Morosi called the Pirates’ tendency to overrating their own prospects.

The Pirates have a reputation for overrating their own prospects — an earnest trait, but one that has resulted in trade proposals other GMs find baffling. Huntington is proud of the farm system he has built, and rightfully so. But now is the time to deal away the likes of Marte and/or Taillon, so the Pirates have a better chance to win at the major league level.

That’s why they’re in business, right?

Marte, 23, and Taillon, 20, are well-regarded prospects, but let’s be honest: We’re not talking about the next Mike Trout and Clayton Kershaw. Marte is roughly one year younger than Upton and has yet to spend a day in the big leagues. Taillon, the same age Kershaw was at the time of his big league debut, has a 4.43 ERA this season at high Class A.

In regards to overrating prospects, that would put them in the company of every other Major League team. When the Pirates were making trades in 2008, one team submitted a list of untouchable prospects that included their entire South Atlantic League roster. Not just the prospects. The entire roster. Think about that from the Pirates’ perspective. That would not only be saying that Alen Hanson and Gregory Polanco are untouchable, but that Junior Sosa and Francisco Diaz are also untouchable.

This wouldn’t be the first time that someone made a claim that a team, or the league as a whole, overrates prospects. I’ve never seen it as “overrating”. I think prospects are now getting the proper values. Teams value prospects higher than they did before, but that’s not saying the values placed on prospects are too high. I think it’s the opposite. In the past, values have been too low.

As for the age comparisons, that’s a strawman argument I’ve seen made many times. Are we saying that if a pitcher doesn’t come up in the majors at the age of 20, he’s not going to end up a good pitcher? Are we saying that a hitter who comes up at age 23 can’t be good? It seems like the call to trade Marte and Taillon is conflicting. The argument to deal them is that they’re not going to be elite guys, but that argument makes you wonder why Arizona would even deal for them. There’s a reason Arizona would deal for them, and that’s probably the same reason the Pirates are “overrating” them.


THE BACKYARD
BEST OF MAXIM
RELATED ARTICLES

First Pitch: The Question Marks Surrounding Justin Upton

It was a week ago today that I wrote about why I wouldn’t trade for Justin Upton. The main reason was that the price in prospects would be too high, although other reasons included the limited resources for small market teams (Upton would cost an average of $12 M a year). Today we heard that the Pittsburgh Pirates were emerging as serious bidders for Upton. In those same rumors...

Upton can block trades to four teams

Justin Upton has power to veto a trade to four teams, sources say.

Pirates Emerging as Serious Bidders for Justin Upton

UPDATE 3:51 PM: Jon Heyman is hearing that there’s nothing serious with Justin Upton yet. He also says the Pirates are “probably not a fit” and that they won’t include Cole or Taillon. UPDATE 1:16 PM: Jon Morosi reports that the Pirates have a scout in Chicago watching Upton this weekend. UPDATE 12:45 PM: Stark said on Baseball Tonight that the Pirates could get Upton without...

Justin Upton Trade Rumors: Wednesday

Here are the latest rumors on Justin Upton, with any updates throughout the day added at the bottom. **Last night, Buster Olney had the following tweet about how the Pirates match up with Arizona. It still appears the Pirates and the Diamondbacks don’t match up on a Justin Upton trade. PIT has pitching, but Ariz. priority is SS help. — Buster Olney (@Buster_ESPN) July 17, 2012...

Yankees Will Also Monitor the OF Market

From Jon Heyman:The Yankees are looking harder at the outfield market than the pitching market, as they still have concerns about Brett Gardner's elbow situation. They've talked to the Phillies about Shane Victorino and the Diamondbacks about Justin Upton, but Upton is a major long shot for them and right now they see the price tag as too high on either. Victorino may...

Jayson Stark: Pirates "serious bidder" for Justin Upton

From Jayson Stark: #Pirates emerging as serious bidder for Justin Upton. More on that and other trade buzz on the 12:30 ET edition of Baseball Tonight! — Jayson Stark (@jaysonst) July 15, 2012 #Pirates so serious about Justin Upton they're sending signals they could include Starling Marte in an Upton deal -- but not Cole or Taillon — Jayson Stark (@jaysonst) July...

Pirates not likely to deal top prospects

The Pittsburgh Pirates continued to search for ways to bolster their roster, with an emphasis on offense, but the big move had yet to drop. They've expressed interest in at least two outfielders, the Diamondbacks' Justin Upton and the Padres' Carlos Quentin, with Upton apparently the preferred choice. The team also is hoping to add a pitcher, preferably one for starting...

First Pitch: Close To Marte Time; Reds Dealt a Blow

A few notes to wrap up the night. **Starling Marte had a great game tonight. That’s good to see. I pointed out two days ago the mini slump Marte was in. A few weeks ago I pointed out that his hot streak was only an equally long nine games. My point in all of this hasn’t been to say that one stretch is legit, or to make a claim one way or the other that he’s ready/not ready...

It's well past time to bring Starling Marte up

The Pirates have lost two consecutive games to sub-.500 teams in which a key play was their right fielder making an awful defensive play. On Sunday, Garrett Jones air-mailed a throw that turned a routine single into a run-scoring triple. Last night, Josh Harrison turned a deep flyball that might've been a tough play but should've been an out into a rally-extending double...

Prospect Watch: Starling Marte Just Misses Cycle, Tony Sanchez Hits Fifth Homer

TOP OF THE SYSTEM A look at how the current top 20 prospects did today.  Note that this list doesn’t include players currently in the majors. Rankings are from the mid-season update. 1. Gerrit Cole, RHP, Altoona (2-2, 5.17) - DNP 2. Jameson Taillon, RHP, Bradenton (5-7, 4.43) - DNP 3. Starling Marte, CF, Indianapolis (.291) - 3-for-4, 2B, 3B, HR 4. Alen Hanson, SS, West...

Homers From Sanchez and Marte Give Indians The Win

Indianapolis Indians  7,  Gwinnett Braves  5 (Box)   Rudy Owens earned his 8th win of the season. Two home runs in consecutive innings, gave the Indians a win over the Gwinnett Braves at Victory Field tonight.  C Tony Sanchez and RF Starling Marte contributed the home runs, while starter Rudy Owens and three relievers held off the Braves’ batters. Gwinnett got onto the scoreboard...
MLB News
Delivered to your inbox
You'll also receive Yardbarker's daily Top 10, featuring the best sports stories from around the web. Customize your newsletter to get articles on your favorite sports and teams. And the best part? It's free!

Today's Best Stuff
For Bloggers

Join the Yardbarker Network for more promotion, traffic, and money.

Company Info
Help
What is Yardbarker?

Yardbarker is the largest network of sports blogs and pro athlete blogs on the web. This site is the hub of the Yardbarker Network, where our editors and algorithms curate the best sports content from our network and beyond.