Dr. John Carlos, Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf, Craig Hodges remember Bill Russell

Etan: Bill Russell was your peer, so I know this hits even closer to you. But what did Russell mean to athlete activists standing up for something bigger than themselves?

Dr. John Carlos: "Well, Bill Russell was the blueprint for the modern day athlete. He stood for humanity, activism and equality. But he didn’t just talk the talk, he walked the walk for the better part of his life. Now as far as on the basketball court, there should be no discussion whatsoever about him possibly being the greatest basketball player of all time. Nobody has accomplished... with all due respect to everyone else, nobody accomplished what he accomplished on the court. 11 championships? That’s unheard of."

Etan: That’s true.

Dr. Carlos: "But aside from what he did on the court, what he stood for off the court is what really put him in that top, upper echelon. I always smile when I think about something he said to me, and I’m actually thinking about it now and smiling, and it’s a good change because I’ve been so sad since I heard about his passing. But I remember being introduced to Bill Russell by my buddy, Blaine Robinson, and the first thing he said was... [Russell] looked at me and smiled and said, 'Carlos, I got one bone to pick with you,' and I said, 'What’s that Bill?' and he said, 'You thought to do that sh** in Mexico before I did' (laughing).

(Editor's Note: Dr. John Carlos stood in protest in a demonstration against racism at the 1968 Olympics in Mexico City with a raised fist wearing black gloves during the national anthem.)

"That made me feel so good that he said that to me. He said, 'I’m mad it wasn’t me.' I told him, 'We’re on the same plane. You’re doing it your way and I’m doing it my way.'"

Etan: That’s a great story. I’ve never heard you tell that story.

Dr. Carlos: "Well you haven’t heard all my stories Etan. You’ve heard a lot but not all of them (laughing). But I’ll tell you something else on a serious note — people forget the environment he was in the entire time in Boston. Don’t forget they actually broke into his house, broke up all his stuff; they actually took a sh** in his bed and then put the covers over it. So after [Russell and his family] cleaned up everything and finally were ready to go to sleep for the night, they would pull back their covers and find that. Hust evil, hateful, sick, twisted people to do something like that to him and his family."

Etan: It’s still mind boggling that actually happened to him.

Dr. Carlos: "And it was so bad that even some of the people in Boston who may have had the evil eye knew that they had to find the individuals who did that to his house. They knew they had a jewel in Bill Russell, and they didn’t want him to be offended to the point that he left Boston altogether. And somehow, he put that ugly incident behind him and kept pressing on, and look at all that he accomplished in Boston."

Etan: You know, it still amazes me that he was able to sweep that under the rug and keep pushing on after they did him like that. I interviewed him for 'We Matter' and of course you’re in that book too, and I asked him about that and he said:

Well, one thing you have to always remember is that the majority of the country are decent folks. The majority of white people are decent folks. And I was always very careful not to stereotype people based on the actions of a few, or a little more than a few, as was the case in Boston... A lot of the stuff that went on, I knew they were individual acts and not a reflection of everybody in Boston. I see many people today who who really believe that Black folks are responsible for all of the actions of other Black folks, and that’s just ridiculous. And it’s just as crazy for me to think that all white people were responsible for the ones that treated me and my family so poorly, broke into my house, and destroyed my property for no reason at all...

But just because I said that I don’t put all white people in the same boat doesn’t mean I don’t still recognize that too many white people looked at me as less than, and no matter what they thought, I wasn’t about to allow them to treat me as less than.

That is such a powerful quote, but I don’t know how he was able to have such a positive outlook on everything after they terrorized him and his family like that.

Dr. Carlos: "I definitely know what you’re saying, but I also understood the position Bill Russell took. I have, and had even back in my heyday, a lot of people from the other side of the street that I would call my friend. So not everyone is as evil as those people who did that to his family. Those people were definitely devils, but Bill Russell couldn’t turn on the whole white race because of them. That showed his maturity and how special he was because at that time, and he said it in that quote, the greater white society was in fact scorning all Black people for the actions of just one. But Bill Russell was bigger than that."

Etan: Truly amazing. Talk about how y’all all supported each other back in the day. 

Dr. Carlos: "I think we had a clear understanding of what the mission was and what the opposition was. We realized that we could do great things through athleticism, and we had the opportunity to speak for those who didn’t have the power or platform to speak for themselves. We had that direction, and we felt comfortable in our lanes and had respect for each other’s lanes. We were fans of each other, and supported each other.

Etan: What is something you want the younger generation to remember about Bill Russell?

Dr. Carlos: "They need to have an opportunity to sit down and read about people like Bill Russell, and learn from him and apply it to their lives and careers. Bill Russell is the top of the pyramid, and we have so many that could be inspired by his story and his life. I’m glad you documented your interview with him; that’s special, and your interview with Kareem [Abdul-Jabbar] and everyone else in your book — young people need to read that. Bill Russell could’ve kept quiet, I could’ve kept quiet, Muhammad Ali could’ve kept quiet. All of our lives would’ve probably been much easier if we did keep quiet, but we couldn’t do that, we had to stand up for our people."

Etan: Right, even with the story of when Russell went down to Kentucky to play the exhibition game with the Celtics... it was segregation and, at first, they wouldn’t let the Black players eat, but then said, 'Well y’all can eat since y’all are special Black people, but you have to go around back.' Bill said, 'If that’s how y’all do Black people here, then we won’t play here.'

Dr. Carlos: "That’s why I said he was the blueprint for modern day athletes of how to use your power. And people need to also know about the Black entertainers before Russell who did that too. Louie Armstrong did it, Nat King Cole did it, Dinah Washington did it and said, 'If you don’t allow my people in here, I don’t need to be here either.' But yes, young people need to learn about all of these pioneers.

"Bill Russell made it a point to always push America to be greater than what it showed to be, and for America to be revealed to itself and that’s the power of the Black athlete voice and Black entertainers voice. So many athletes don’t realize the power they actually have if they use it. Now, many do realize that power, but more need to, and it would help if they all learned about Bill Russell because if he could do it back then, they can definitely do it now."

Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf 

Etan: What did Bill Russell mean to you? 

Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf: "Wow (deep breath), if you want to look at a figure that transcends the game of basketball, it’s Bill Russell. You think about his individual skills, and recognizing how difficult it is for someone to sacrifice those individual skills or notoriety or public embrace for the collective. But this is a person who sacrificed all of that for justice, equality and fair treatment, all while winning 11 championships simultaneously. When you examine how athletics has the capability to teach you so much about life, and are able to be applied to everyday aspects of life.

"So, Bill Russell took that same indomitable spirit and will that he had, and used it socially and politically. And he never allowed himself to succumb to being dehumanized or disrespected. The same spirit he had on the basketball floor in terms of sacrifice and work ethic and winning championships, he carried that over into his activist and political life and humanitarian work."

Etan: Right, I’m glad you included humanitarian because he was so dedicated to helping others outside of himself.

Abdul-Rauf: "Definitely. He lent his support to others and it extended beyond the labels that society placed on its citizens in an effort to draw the lines in the sand, so to speak. For example, take his support for Muhammad Ali; [Bill] wasn’t a Muslim, but he saw that it was an injustice and he lent his support and that’s what made him special. Bill Russell was a free thinker. He is definitely going to be missed, and a gap has been created. Anytime you lose a figure like that in the world, with that type of impact, a gap has been created, and it’s hard to fill. 

Etan: Yeah, when I heard it right after me and my family were sitting down watching church, it hit me hard. I understand he was 88 years old, and it’s a blessing to live that long, but it still hit me hard.

Abdul-Rauf: "Me as well. When I heard it, it stopped me in my tracks. And look, we know everyone’s time is going to come eventually, and nobody can live forever; we know that, but some people when they go, because of the impact, it’s felt even more."

Etan: Definitely agree. What do you think that young people now should know about Bill Russell? Because I think it should be required reading for all young people to learn about people like Russell and Ali and everything they sacrificed.

Abdul-Rauf: "I think first and foremost, young people should understand that Bill Russell was much more than a basketball player. He used basketball as a tool. And as athletes, this is how we should see it — basketball should never be an end in and of itself. Yes, it gives us wealth that normal people don’t have. and it gives us access to media that normal people don’t have which amplifies our voice because of that access, and Bill Russell utilized it to the fullest. And as athletes, we should learn from that example.

"George Washington Carver said, 'No one has the right to come into this world and go out of it without leaving behind distinct and legitimate reasons for having passed through.' So God has given us all of this potential and blessings, who are we to waste it? So when you look at all that Bill Russell did with his blessings — and not just developing his skills on the court and winning 11 championships, something that is amazing in itself — but then going on to say that this is much bigger than me making money and winning on the court, but let me lend my support to other areas, and truly become the voice of the voiceless."

Etan: I couldn’t have said it any better. He really left a trail behind for others to follow.

Abdul-Rauf: "Absolutely. He wrote books and books. There’s a saying: 'The ink of a scholar is more dear to God than the death of a martyr.' When you leave a legacy of literature, you leave your story for eternity. So people that write, they leave that type of legacy, even when you’re dead and gone. When people pick up that book, they benefit from your story and they are blessed. That’s why I love all the writing that you have done. You’re leaving your trail of breadcrumbs too Brotha.

"So yes I agree with you, it should definitely be required reading, as should your books. Other people are constantly telling our stories, and we need to learn about those heroes who look like us and how they navigated through what life challenged them with and how they became successful. There is a recipe for success just as there is a recipe for failure. So yes, it all should be required reading. It’s all about leaving something for the generation after us."

Craig Hodges 

Etan: How did Bill Russell inspire you? 

Craig Hodges: "Well for me, when we talk the GOAT... I always tell people the GOAT is Muhammad Ali, but if we are talking about basketball, the GOAT is Bill Russell. He was a winner, and all of us think in terms of winning championships, and if nothing else, he was the model for what a champion is. But if for me, and I’m sure for yourself, Bill Russell was one of the key fibers in the fabric of modeling self-determination, knowledge of self, standing up for your self, demanding dignity and respect for the Black man in this country called America. He also had the awareness of being on a world stage and having the platform to speak to this not only for himself, but for everyone else who looked like him."

Etan: Perfectly said.

Hodges: "Thank you, but I feel blessed to have been able to cross paths with him, and to be able to talk to him and just soak up that life energy from him. Me and my son were just sitting here talking about how far along Bill Russell pushed that envelope and where we would be today without Brothas like that. We all owe a lot to Bill Russell."

Etan: Right, and I think sometimes people forget the climate that was prevalent at that time. Not that it’s completely gone by any stretch of the imagination — all we have to do is revisit the Jan. 6 insurrection and we’re reminded that it’s not gone...

Hodges: "You got that right."

Etan: But people forget that when Bill Russell was standing up back in the '50s and '60s, it was a totally different America as a whole.

Hodges: "No question about it. Even to the point of being able to have vision enough to be able to forecast that we have to do certain things and make certain moves in order for this generation of players — whether it’s LeBron [James] or Kevin Durant or Kyrie Irving or Giannis [Antetokounmpo] — to be able to not only earn what they earn currently, but to be able to speak freely and stand up for themselves and what they believe in freely. It was because of Brothas like Bill Russell who spoke up on behalf of future players."

Etan: To your earlier point, one of the things he did was he demanded respect at a time when the entire country was not respecting any Black people.

Hodges: Absolutely, and he did it in an unapologetic and articulate way where it was clear and it was concise. He didn’t backpedal from it after backlash. He didn’t put his tail between his legs after many white people in Boston — and in America for that matter — got upset at the audacity of this Negro (only they didn’t say Negro), didn’t know his so-called place; he never backed down. And that’s why we are in mourning right now. We send condolences to his family but we also celebrate and honor who he was and what he stood for."

Etan: Definitely, now, you were saying earlier that you were talking with your son about Russell, what were you breaking down for him?

Hodges: "Everything we talked about earlier, I broke it all down for my son. When I think about where I sit as far as social activism, to me, it’s like a kaleidoscope when Iook back at the history of athletes using their voices. It’s like a kaleidoscope when I think of the '68 Olympic experience, Muhammad Ali, and his fights, and Bill Russell and what he was doing in Boston. It was all connected, and that’s the beauty of what it was.

"And looking at it now, and what I was stressing to my son, unless you take it upon yourself to study, nobody is going to press you to study the pioneers of the past. That’s why I love what you did with your book that I was happy to be a part of. Your book should be in every young person’s hand, so they can learn about people like Bill Russell and Kareem and John Carlos and all of the greats who had to sacrifice and laid the foundation. It’s up to us to keep that message and those lessons alive."

Etan: I couldn’t agree more, and not just for young athletes, but for all young people to learn about Bill Russell, and also, all of the branches that came from the tree of Bill Russell like yourself and Mahmoud Abdul Rauf and [Colin] Kaepernick and LeBron.

Hodges: And don’t leave yourself out there Brotha. We all come from that tree as you put it of pioneers like Bill Russell, and we have to continue his legacy and pass it to the generation after us.