Thurman Thomas Talks Hall of Fame, Elite Construction, And Super Bowl Plans

Doug Farrar: Let’s start with your partnership with workwear brand Carhartt. You’re honoring the skilled tradespeople building the stadium/sports industry in a new short film, “The Stadium.” Tell me about the importance of skilled trades; their impact on daily lives, and why we can’t take the skilled trades for granted, as well as Carhartt’s $300,000 local Buffalo investment to help young people pursue careers in the trades.

Thurman Thomas: Well, it's called Making the New Highmark Stadium Possible. It's just highlighting the unsung heroes that are involved with building the new Highmark Stadium for the Buffalo Bills. My company, 34 Group, was approached a couple of months ago by Carhartt to do some things, talking about the trades, talking about the skilled people, the unsung heroes that don't get the credit, because everybody knows that Gilbane | Turner, they're building the stadium.

But we're trying to really put a showcase on the men and women that are there every single day, doing their job, doing their craft, doing their trade, doing their skilled tradesmen. And because those are the people that are putting the stadium together piece by piece and they don't get enough credit. And so we've decided to partner up with Carhartt, and obviously their gear is fantastic. We need it for Buffalo, and we need it for the summer.

DF: I was going to say, that weather in Buffalo is no joke.

TT: Oh, it's no joke. It's no joke. So I'm ready for the weather, because they gave me a lot of apparel to wear. And even with that, they've donated like $300,000 to the Buffalo community, you know, for to support the trade programs and education opportunities for kids growing up. Because we're in an industry where, even at my company at 34 Group, our workers, our project managers, I mean, they're in their fifties, and we want to try to spin it. We want to try to get some of the younger kids that are in their twenties.

Because everybody's like, well, you've got to go to college. If you learn a trade, you can make very good money. And it's been proven like in my family, on my dad's side, plumber, HVAC, electrician, all over my family, my uncles never went to college and still to this day, enjoying life in nice houses, and owning their own companies. So I mean, that's how you can do it. And I'm glad we've teamed up with Carhartt in this initiative to help the community of Buffalo.

DF: As you said, your company 34 Group is involved as general contractor for the new Highmark Stadium. How is the construction going on the new place?

TT: Everything's going great. You know, we're rolling along. We're doing great as a company. We got the contract to put in the seats in the stadium. So they're not benches, they're all seats, all 60,000 of them. So that's a big project for our company. We're doing a lot of labor. And then, the inside stuff, because that's where we really shine. Woodwork, drywall, painting, those are our top dogs right there.

But it's really not even about what we do.

It's about what can we do to help keep this project on time and be beautiful when it's done, but also get the partnership after it's done, because that's what we want. That's where we want to come in, because we want to work with the people that we've been working with on different projects, because after this stadium is gone, there's not going to be a $2 billion project going on in Buffalo anywhere. So, we want to continue to work with these companies that are coming to the stadium.

The Running Back Renaissance

DF: That's great. Well, let's talk some football. In 2024, especially with Saquon Barkley and Derrick Henry, we really saw a run game renaissance in the NFL, after years of hearing about how “running backs don’t matter.” How much did you enjoy that? 

TT: Oh man, I enjoyed it a lot. I mean, I was watching Derrick Henry and Saquon Barkley every week. I was making sure that I was watching their games. It's been really good to see that happen again. Now, obviously, you know, it's not as many [great running backs] as there were back then. I mean, you're talking about Marshall [Faulk], Edgerrin James, Emmitt [Smith], Barry [Sanders], Marcus Allen.

The list was 20 deep, and now you might only have five or six deep now. And so you're looking at being from a standpoint of the Hall of Fame, because running backs are not getting the ball as much as that. So what is now the standard for a Hall of Fame running back? Is it 12,000 yards? Because that's kind of like, if you have 12,000 yards, you're probably getting in the Hall of Fame.

So now without these guys playing 10, 11, 12 years, is the benchmark six years, seven years or eight years? Because you're not going to be getting all these carries all the time. So I think the NFL is where they want to be, which is a passing league. I think it is now.

And yeah, because I was talking to somebody else, a running back hasn't won MVP since Adrian Peterson, I think was the last one [in 2012]. It was quite a few years ago.

DF: Well, the interesting thing though, the team that just won the Super Bowl, the Eagles, you look at [offensive tackles] Jordan Mailata and Lane Johnson, they actually had more run blocking reps than pass blocking reps last season. So while it is a passing league, you have that, and the Ravens with Lamar running for a thousand yards and all that.

I mean, Derrick Henry was so prolific in outside zone, which you might not expect. Can you imagine how much it would stink to be a defender and deal with outside zone blocking, and at the end of that, there's Derrick Henry to deal with? No, thank you.

TT: Well, I think you see how many guys will make business decisions too. With him doing that differently with Lamar, you know, there's only a couple of teams that are really running the football a little bit more than they were. I think to a certain point, the Bills were one of those football teams. We've been in the top10 or top eight. And because that's also because of Josh [Allen], too.

And I'm sure that's the way it is with Baltimore and with, I mean, [Eagles quarterback] Jalen Hurts, I mean, Jalen Hurts probably has the best offensive linemen in the league. If I'm going to lean on somebody, it's going to be Saquon Barkley. And he showed this year going over 2000 yards, I wish he would have gotten the record. A lot of people say, oh, he would have got hurt maybe, but I'm like, man, you know, that record, man, records are made to be broken.

The Ultimate Do-It-All Running Back

DF: Well, let's talk about how you get into the Hall of Fame as a running back. From 1989 through 1982, you led the NFL every year in yards from scrimmage. I find this fascinating because in pro football history before you, no player had ever led the league in that category more than twice in a row. And nobody has done it more than twice in a row since. You were a great receiving back as one would expect from a guy with that particular statistical profile, but what was it about you and those offenses specially that allowed you to be so historically dominant for that long? 

TT: I think one of the hidden secrets about me coming out of college, even though I had the "knee problem," was that I practiced a lot of catching a football at Oklahoma state and which a lot of people didn't know. I mean, my wide receivers coach was [legendary college coach] Houston Nutt. He was wide receivers coach for [receiver] Hart Lee Dykes, who was there at the time when I was there. So, Houston Nutt used to teach me coming out of the backfield, lining up in the slot, lining up as a wide receiver.

When I got to the Bills, they don't really know that because it's never shown on film, but I would catch screen passes. But, you know, I mean, I caught like, man, I maybe caught one 50 balls in college and ran it 900 times, you know? So they really didn't know that I could catch a ball until, you know, one year [Bills running back] Robb Riddick got hurt, and that propelled me into the starting role of being on the football field for first, second, and third down. And after that, it just started.

The Bills never would have known that until a couple of years after that, maybe when Robb Riddick retired, but I always knew that I could do it. I just never never mentioned it because I was a running back. That's all we wanted to do was just run the football.

But once Robb went down, Jim [Kelly] and I started connecting, we started working after practice, doing certain routes, what you're supposed to do. And I was like, this can be an added part to our office because I look at myself and I'm like, there's no way in hell I'm gonna let a linebacker cover me coming out of the backfield.

DF: There have been a few guys... I mean, Terry Metcalf in kind of a scatback role in the 1970s. Chuck Foreman led the NFL in receptions in 1975, obviously Roger Craig a few years later, but you predated all the guys from Marshall Faulk to Christian McCaffrey who did that, or who have done that sense. You were kind of that guy in the middle who really raised the profile of the do-it-all running back.

TT: And you know what? I was, and I was proud of that too, being a, being a first, second, and third down back, which obviously you don't see a lot today in the National Football League. I mean, we have James Cook here, but you know, he's the first down back. Usually Ray Davis, maybe come in second down and then Ty Johnson come in third down.

So you don't have that same one back that you have throughout the entire football game. So I took a lot of pride in that, but also took a beating. I mean, just to be honest with you, I took a beating.

Mozart the Way It Should Be Played

DF: For those who didn’t see you play, I wanted to bring up just a few highlights from your career. The speed, the jukes, the contact balance, the ability to break tackles, and the receiving ability – just ridiculous. How would you describe your running style, and who might you compare yourself to, either in pro football history, or in the present day? 

TT: I never really sat down and watched [to compare] I mean, if I had to compare myself to anybody, it would probably be somebody like Emmitt Smith running the football. It was running right between the tackles. He had a great offensive line and so did I. So everything was between the tackles. So I would think that would be the closest.

But when you look at the other part of my game and I probably have to look at, you know, Marshall Faulk. Yeah. I probably have to look at Marshall Falk, you know, being that guy coming out because I remember when [offensive coordinator] Ted Marchibroda left Buffalo [after the 1991 season], he went to the Colts, and that's where Marshall Falk picked up this type of offense.

And that's where he became a third down back, you know, throughout his career, running the football and catching the football out of the backfield. So that would be another guy. And I don't know, I don't know too many guys that wore a brace that played 13 years in the national football league with a torn ACL. So I wasn't as fast as those guys, but I had a really good balance and really good vision. And I think playing 13 years propelled me into the Hall of Fame.

Getting Lost In the Draft

DF: I wanted to present you with the following list, and you probably know where I’m going here: Gaston Green, John Stephens, Lorenzo White, Brad Muster, Craig “Ironhead” Heyward, Ickey Woods, and Tony Jeffery. Those were the seven running backs selected before you in the 1988 draft. You did have the knee injury at Oklahoma State, but you came back to lead the nation in rushing yards and rushing touchdowns in 1987. How much did having to wait until the 40th overall pick in the second round of that draft put a chip on your shoulder when you came into the NFL? Did that drive you to succeed even more than you were already driven? 

TT: It was a blow to my ego, and it was only because there were certain teams that said that they were going to take me in the first round. Had no team said that they were going to take me in the first round, I probably would not have had a chip on my shoulder, but I probably would have had a chip on my shoulder, because I knew that I was better than John Stivas, Gaston Green...

DF: I'd say you lapped the field, my man.

TT: I was getting ready to name all those running backs, because I know them all by heart.

DF: I'm sure you do. The Ickey Shuffle was cute, but I would say you lapped the field.

TT: Yeah, but people remind me of that and I say, yeah, you know, that's just the way the dice fall off. If I go somewhere [else], I'm not in my 38th year with my wife. So I'm thanking the good Lord that I was picked 40th by the Buffalo Bills in the second round, because me coming here was the best thing that ever happened to me. Even though I met her when I was a senior and she was a freshman at Oklahoma State University, I ended up getting drafted by Buffalo and she was from Buffalo, and it's been 38 years, so I got something out of it.

The Super Bowl XXV Game Plan

DF: Everybody talks about Wide Right when it comes to Super Bowl XXV. But the Bill Belichick game plan, which is now in the Hall of Fame, was obviously a pretty major story, too. The Giants threw a lot of two-man fronts at the Bills’ offense with six defensive backs, which was unusual for the time. The idea was to concede your yards, and you gained 135 yards and scored a rushing touchdown on 15 carries. But the idea of allowing you to do that and focusing instead on the passing game – was that something you were aware of at all before the game started, and when did it become apparent in the game itself? Was there any attempt to adjust what you were doing on offense to counter that? 

TT: No, not from our standpoint. Not on the Bills offense, because that was what got us there. I can remember when we played the Giants earlier in that year, Jim Kelly and Phil Simms got hurt. And Jim said to Frank Reich, who became the quarterback, we don't need to change anything. You keep running the fast-paced no-huddle, keep doing what we're doing.

And that carried on from that game all the way to the Super Bowl. And we felt like this was our game plan, that this is what got us here to this point. Now, I think when you sit back and think about it... I think in the last five years, and Jim has never opened up to me about this, but he has been saying the last five years, I should have just gave you the ball a little bit more.

What the Old Bills Have Told the New Bills

DF: The Buffalo Bills of the last few years have come agonizingly close to the Super Bowl, over and over, You and your teammates from back in the day know better than anyone how it feels to come that close over and over. Have you talked to the current Bills about how to keep things together and keep going through all that heartbreak? What was your secret to doing it?

TT: Yeah. I mean, obviously the guys that I talked to before, but not on the team anymore. And those two players were [safeties] Jordan Poyer and Micah Hyde. Those were my guys who I could relate to all the time about certain situations, and how is it going over there at One Bills Drive? Micah would always respond to me: "[Head coach] Sean McDermott is doing everything in his power to try to get this right." You know? So they're not laying back. These guys, these coaches over there... they want to accomplish this so bad, so bad.

I mean, as you can hear when Josh is speaking, you can hear when other players are speaking, Sean McDermott, they want this real bad. They just haven't been able to get over the hump of the Kansas City Chiefs, point blank. That has been it.

I don't know any other way to tell you, because if you look at Josh Allen's stats throughout the playoffs, you would think we would have at least two Super Bowls. If you look at over the last four years of what he's done in the, I think it's like 28 touchdowns and one turnover, whatever it may be [25 passing touchdowns and four interceptions]. And to sit up here and say that we can't win or get to one Super Bowl with the stats that we have, it's just not our time.

I don't know how to explain it. I don't know what to tell the guys anymore, because they're over there trying. I mean, every game has been three points or something, right? We're right there. It's just... you don't want to bring Cleveland into it, but we just have been cursed by something or whatever it may be that just have not got us over the hump.

But I think as long as we have Josh and Sean McDermott and keep adding players, we're still going to be there. We're still going to be there, when it comes down to it.

DF: So you don't think it's like one thing they should be doing that they're not, it's just, you know, you get in those games, and it's a one-game elimination, and it's just not your day.

TT: I think they're doing whatever they can do to win a football game. I don't think they're, I mean, there's probably been some things that have changed over the years, the past couple of years. I don't know what they are, but they just haven't made the point.