BEING SPECIFIC ABOUT MICHAEL VICK

Posted February 07, 2013

 

AFTER looking specifically at the Michael Vick situation, I have to say, I've changed my mind on how I originally felt about a lot in regards to this team. I’m not thinking division titles (yet anyway), but perhaps there’s still an ounce of sanity in the brain trust and the team won’t have to change its name to the Philadelphia Laughingstock after all. 

By “specifically” I mean in terms of looking at Vick as an option in 2013. That means Vick vs. Nick Foles/Vick vs. the cap/Vick in a new system tailored to what he does, instead of the other way around… Up until recently I wasn’t really looking at any of this stuff because I thought it was a fore drawn conclusion that Vick was gone. I was wrong about that. We all were.

On January 6th, I was as surprised as anyone that Vick was part of any discussion regarding the future of the Eagles. I was surprised and so I put up this post: http://www.yardbarker.com/forum/3/57/discussion/vick_to_remain_the_2013_starter/12591970

Up until VERY recently I was certain that #7 was no longer a reality in Philadelphia. However, the more time passes, and the less the Eagles say about Vick, the more likely it is that he’ll not only be here, but that he’ll also be our starter.

Look:

A) If they wanted him gone, he could have been cut by now.

B) He won’t take a pay cut. Why would they have asked him to take a cut, if they’re just looking to boot him?

C) If they know they’re leaning towards cutting him just to save some money, just cut him and then come back and try to grab him at whatever the market dictates he’s worth.

D) If they wanted to trade him, then it would make sense to talk him up, right? His leadership, athleticism, competitiveness, blahblahblah, right? Even if it’s all bull, you talk up your trade bait, right? The Eagles? Almost dead silence.

 

Stay or go you try to make this work for you if you’re the Eagles, right? Go is easy. Just cut him. Stay is harder. Stay is making him more affordable, making sure he fits, making sure he still has his teammates support. Stay takes time. The Eagles are taking time.

Up until recently I was sure he was gone, but with them deciding to do due diligence first, it made ME take a closer look at the situation. Now, with all things having been considered (that includes the 2013 Draft, Free Agency and anything but a big trade), I hope Vick opens the year as our Starter.

 

28 Comments:
  • As you stated due diligenceis what they are doing, and that doesn't mean he will be back. This idea that Vick is some great option is laughable to me. Have you people been watching the games the past few years or just playing Madden or something? REALISTICALLY Mike Vick in the last 4 years as an Eagle is 18-16 as the starter. He has not played one full season. His touchdowns have dropped to nearly half of his 2010 mark while his interceptions have nearly doubled. Mike Vick doesn't make the Eagles better. He makes them the laughing stock you claim you don't want them to be. If they bring Vick back the joke will be on them. This idea that Vick fits Kelly's system is also a joke. Kelly needs a guy who makes quick decisions (not Mike Vick), durable (Not Mike Vick), and who can protect the football (still not Vick). Just cause Chip Kelly isn't on the airways trying to shine a turd for trade purposes doesn't mean he isn't doing it behind the scenes. Rather the Eagles are. I don't see any of the same going on with Tebow or Alex Smith either and both are likely to be traded. I wouldn't over think this Vick thing. The past few seasons you were watching the real Mike Vick. Just to make it clear in the six seasons Vick was in Atlanta he won 38 games. That averages out to about 6 wins a season as he usually spends time injured. In his 3 years in Philly (if you take away the first season as the wild cat crap) he averages 6 wins a season. He averages about 5 losses for both too. Mike Vick isn't the answer. Before you go into some snarky "it's the Eagles decision" kind of response I will point out the fact that you stated you want this guy back which places you in league with Hollywood a guy you claim to have nothing in common with. As such you want the Eagles to fail like Hollywood.
  • Exactly what system is Chip Kelly running? Oh you say you don't know? Why not?
    Perhaps it's because Chip Kelly hasn't said what system he's running. Sooooo, armed with NO INFORMATION, how can you say that Vick will or won't fit Kelly's unrevealed system?

    The simple answer is YOU CAN'T. Especially if Chip Kelly seems to think there's possibility that he could fit, or is willing to build something around Vick.

    And that Atlanta stuff is all the stuff that made me NOT want him when we first got him, so you're preaching to Jesus with that. Not even sure where you were trying to go with that. Fact is, this team lost nearly every game Vick didn't play in over the last 2 years. So it's not like it was better without him.

    Vick didn't give up 28 points a game. Vick doesn't blow coverage assignments and give up easy TD's. Vick didn't get Nick Foles sacked 20 times in only 6 games. Vick didn't name Juan Castillo DC. Vick isn't responsible for dismal kick returns or kick coverage. Vick isn't the reason the Eagles can't draft a decent Safety.

    There was a LOT of blame to hand out on this team. It's already cost our old coach his job. The new coach's job is to BUILD a winner, not CUT away at his team just to satiate fans seeking their pound of flesh.

    Vick may not be back as the starter but if he is, does that mean that Chip Kelly wants the Eagles to fail as well?
  • First off "Atlanta" Mike Vick and the guy playing for the Eagles is the same person except maybe the Philly guy no longer participates in dog fighting. It's the dumbest comment anyone can make to protect Vick. The Mike Vick led Eagles averaged 16 points a game last season and Mike Vick DID CONTRIBUTE TO THE 28 POINTS PER GAME given up with his untimely turnovers and pick six touchdowns.
    As far as what Kelly will run, well I have listened to what he has said, and to what his former players have said so I do have an idea of what Kelly wants to do. Tell me what coach despite his offense wants a guy who is injury prone, turns the ball over, and is indecisive with the football? You tell me the guy, and I bet he's been fired. I love the it's everyone else's fault argument people make when it comes to Vick. It has no grounds whatsoever, yet people continue to do it. MIKE VICK'S NUMBERS ARE THE SAME IN PHILLY AND ATLANTA! He averages 6 wins a season for his career not just in Atlanta. He's won more than 10 games once his entire career. Of course you will dance around the facts in a Hollywood esqe style to make your point of why we need Vick. Or maybe you will grade my punctuation this time. I mean anything to avoid the fact you are completely wrong in your thinking that Vick is answer to the problem, and not part of the problem.
  • I keep saying he may not be back. He's the best option on the roster, and the best available in FA (excepting Flacco), so yeah I hope he's back.

    You disagree. Fine. But if the coach plays him then the coach plays him, and you'll have no choice but to root for Michael Vick alongside me.

    You're angry at the wrong person here. I'm not the reason he's still here, and I won't be the reason he starts if does stay. (If he stays, he starts).

    Save your anger for trying to get Kelly fired; because for as much as you harped on me for not liking the hire, YOU seem to be the one having the most difficulty with it.
  • You think I'm angry? This isn't about anger flip. It's about facts. The fact is Mike Vick doesn't make the Eagles better. How can anyone realistically make that argument? I can't truly state Vick is even the best option on the roster. Consider this: Mike Vick virtually had the same numbers as Nick Foles despite the fact Vick had more options around him. In other words Vick had most of the starters with him before they started to drop like flies. For a time Foles was missing all but one starter on the line, Jackson, McCoy, Celek, and I believe Avant. Vick with more talent and more games won only two more games than Foles. So who is to say Foles can't improve as a 2nd year quarterback? If Vick will cost anywhere from 8-16 mil next season so how is he a better option when his contract will prevent the Eagles from signing a potential free agent or two that could improve the team? Especially when you consider the fact his numbers were slightly better than Foles with better talent?
  • Vick was on a slide in 2010 before he even got that big contract. Since early 2011 news from camp leaked out by callers on WIP saying Vick looked horrible during camp and the hosts usually agreed. Even posters were worried and commenting about how bad he looked while watching the Eagles webcam this past year. We all know how pitiful he's looked in preseason which started our worries almost immediately going into the last two seasons. His bad play has carried over right into the seasons. Why anyone would want to go through that is beyond me. Under 16 points a game this year, and 10-13 as a starter with 30 TDs to 24 picks and he's put the ball on the ground 21 times (in 23 games) the last two years. Where's the draw (more importantly, where's the wins?)? A new coaching regime with the same quarterback who IS part of the problem kills some of the excitement for me and I would guess many fans feel the same way.
  • Ticket sales will tell the tales.
  • The Kelly hiring may be enough to keep the fans satisfied for now and if the Eagles show some improvement during the season they will hold onto the hope of an improving future (I just don't see that improving future with Vick...a so-so season with Vick won't cut it but one with a new quarterback would). You don't have to sell me on Philadelphia fans and their Eagles...hollywood is the one that thinks the FO BSs when it comes to ticket sales.
  • This response doesn't answer any of the questions (valid questions I would add) posed by green here. Also ticket sales Tell you nothing. They were already purchased to begin with. What tells the story will be the boos reigning down all over the stadium, followed by the silence from everyone leaving early. Still that's Lurie's bottom line, you can't speak for Lurie. You can only speak for yourself, and green is posing these questions to you. You are the one supporting Vick here. He's asking you why do you want to go through it again when you have seen this outcome twice already? Ticket sales have nothing to do with your response.
  • Flip's already answered that above, I just don't understand why he would want that. I just don't get why someone wouldn't want their team to search for better instead of settling for the MUCH less than stellar performances by Vick. Vick isn't a young man learning, he'll be 33 this year. Just like you stated Foles was just as effective as Vick and helped put more points on the board per game...why not see what the second year player (and cheaper option which would allow the team to make more improvements) can do and see if he can improve on what he has already done?
  • I don't see the answer. I see a cop out. He makes a statement that he wants the guy here, tries to back it up by blaming others for the problems. Mike Vick will be Chip Kelly's decision!?! No sh!t Sherlock! I'm just curious why HE thinks Vick should be the starter. After all we are here to debate right? You tell me everyone else is the problem, but the facts say otherwise. You say Vick is the best option, but that debatable at best. So when you can't give a legit reason, you chalk it up to me being angry? I'm just looking for a valid reason to feel comfortable with Mike Vick being the starter. If he has one then share it. He doesn't have one, so why does he "hope Vick opens the season as our starter?"
  • Let's start with Michael Vick. CBSSports.com's Mike Freeman reported Kelly embraces the notion of keeping Vick at a reduced rate, according to a source familiar with the team's thinking. Kelly and his assistants have broken down film from Vick's 2012 season and view him as a capable quarterback -- but they still aren't certain what they have in the 32-year-old passer.

    Here's the link.
    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000137063/article/chip-kelly-reportedly-open-to-keeping-michael-vick

    It's not me man. Save your anger.
  • Lol
  • awwhaww ever try to figure most things out??? Ive tryed and the best way to handle it????? leave it alone....
  • [not displayed: comment from locked account]
  • If Kelly keeps him here it will only be a matter of time before he sees the error of his ways. Whether its Vick going down to injury at the worst time, or he just plays to his standards. Chip will regret hopping on the Vick wagon. Truth is no one has a valid reason to keep Mike Vick other than the assumed idea that Vick is really the 2010 guy and not the guy from the past two seasons. Well they are correct. He is part that guy. He took the league by storm early, because so few teams had new data on him. As soon as they figured out how to play him he was pretty much done. He still gets fooled by the same simple blitzes. Mike played 11 games that year and 23 since. His numbers make it clear. He isn't good anymore.
  • [not displayed: comment from locked account]
  • Nothing is special about vick anymore. lets cut the but bs and move on. It's time to star over and if Kelly wants fans to buy into his system risking another turnover filled disappointing season. Reid had the benifit of drafting McNabb as his future franchise QB his first year. Kelly may not have that option, he may not have a good option already on the team, or via free agency or even the option to trade for that guy. but i'd rather struggle with foles next season and see what he's got then suffer with vick and postpone cutting ties with him later. i have no grand illusions about this team winning the division this season or even next. the sooner the fans and staff realize that and start to rebuild the broken parts of this team.
  • Makes complete sense to me. If anyone thinks Vick somehow makes this team a contender they are fooling themselves. He will get this team to 8-8 at best, squander our chances at drafting a legit franchise quarterback (if Nick Foles isn't the guy), and take up unnecessary cap space that could be used to help improve this defense. Wanting Mike Vick by default means that person has no care for the future of the Eagles.
  • exactly... this is Chips year to take a chance as head coach. If you draft a guy or go with Foles or even bring in someone like dixon if they fail no one blames them no one would be expecting them to turn the franchise around in one season. with vick on the other hand people are already fed up with him. if foles or another guy take the team 8-8 it shows the team is rebuilding and making positive strides to turning things around. If vick goes 8-8 again its just another disappointing season with a washed up QB who people keep betting on for some reason.
  • 8-8 is better than 4-12, right?

    The fact is anyone with playoff expectations for the Eagles next season are being completely unrealistic. Not until all of the questions have been answered at least, and there are plenty when it comes to this Eagles team. Realistically I don't think one can make any predictions as to what the Eagles will be next season, and for that reason expectations should be low at best.

    So what's wrong with 8-8 at best?
  • 8-8 with vick at the helm doesn't show improvement we've already had that with him and last we had a lot of injuries. plus vick isn't going to get better as he ages. 8-8 with foles or someone new means a step in the right direction. its an improvment and something to build on, which i'm all for. thats why id rather move on from vick i'd rather have a year of growth with a young qb then another year in limbo with vick. at least if we move forward with lets say foles and go 4-12 it gets us another high round draft pick to build with. we have a young team who can be great if we make the right moves. giving vick the starting job doesn't help foles develop and if he goes 8-8 fans will get fed up with him and wonder why he was kept to begin with.
  • No one seems to care that most of the tools Chip Kelly will be stuck with, are already on the roster.

    All this talk of trading for Alex Smith? What do you think it would cost the Eagles? Depends on what San Fran needs right? It also depends on what KC, Arizona, the Jets and god knows who else is willing to part with. The price will be steep. Even if it's just a straight up player swap, ask yourself, what does San Fran need? An every down RB to succeed Frank Gore? A WR who can stretch the field so Crabtree and Vernon Davis can work underneath?

    Too steep? Okay let's go pick plus player. Maybe Maclin and the #4 pick then?

    You get me? It's not like San Fran is LOOKING to trade with US. Smith could end up in a few different places, so counting on that is shaky.

    What Kelly is working with in 2013 is likely already on the roster. FA is a wasteland at QB, and the Draft sticks you with a rookie coaching a rookie, in god only knows what system.

    If Kelly's under pressure to win he really does have to go with his gut.
  • I agree with you about people undervaluing the price for Smith but I doubt any team would even think about giving up a high 1st rounder (especially 4) and a former first rounder for Smith. Way too steep of a price. I would guess it will be more of a McNabb type of deal...a 2nd and maybe a 3rd or 4th next year and that's only because of what you factor in...a decent amount of teams looking for a quarterback and only one in the draft and free agency that people think of as a franchise QB that may be able to step right in (and there is some debate over him).

    You bring up Kelly possibly having pressure to win right away and with what we've seen so far I highly doubt he does. I hope Roseman and Lurie wouldn't put that kind of pressure on their guy with where this team has been. They know the offense will be using a new system, they know that Kelly is gearing up to change this defense to a 3-4 with very few players who have ever played in that system with no starting caliber nose tackle to boot, they know that many of these coaches have little to no pro coaching experience and last but far from least, they know that whoever Kelly picks as his quarterback there is no guarantee that he will be successful...especially in the first year. He either get's a quarterback who has been riddled with injuries, turnovers and poor play, a second year quarterback who doesn't seem to fit his system and is still a huge questionmark or someone that isn't even on the roster yet...any of these choices hardly scream playoffs.
  • No i completely agree that smith is going to go to the highest bidder and he is going to be overpriced just based on that fact the the 49ers don't have any big needs besides maybe depth and what you already mentioned. I think smith is better then anyone we have on the roster but i dont think he's worth what it would cost. I don't know who the answer is at QB but i have a gut feeling that going with vick.

    honestly i'd rather see the team struggle this year with a young guy and rebuild this season and next offseason rather then keeping vick as a band aid. like i said before if we go 8-8 with vick this year all it means is he isnt the guy. if we go 8-8 with foles it shows he's got promise. if we go 4-12 with foles then we know he's probably not our guy and we get the benefit of a high draft pick again. I can get fully behind this team rebuilding for a year or two. this hasn't been a championship caliber team for some time and the idea that we are going to compete for one this year is unrealistic and unfair to put on the new coaching staff.
  • But there it goes again, when you say "honestly i'd rather see the team struggle this year with a young guy and rebuild" . And you aren't the only one to do this.

    Fans KEEP dismissing that Kelly isn't being paid 6.5 million in 2013 (Reid was supposed to make 6.3), to struggle. Lurie and Reid are friends. You don't fire your friend to give his replacement unlimited room for error.

    The question isn't how do WE feel, but how does an aging LURIE, coming off of a major life change feel? Because how HE feels will determine how much pressure Kelly feels. And THAT more than anything else will determine his decisions.
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