FLAT BROKE?

Posted April 01, 2013

REALLY feeling shaky about the idea of Trent Cole and Brandon Graham as OLB's in coverage. It's one thing to drop 3 to 4 yards into a shallow zone and scrape, it's quite another if another team recognizes the mismatch of Cole or Graham vs. say Jason Witten, Fred Davis or Brandon Myers (keep in mind this would be a base vs. base alignment). Considering that Connor Barwin is no expert in coverage either, it may make sense to get a legit OLB instead of converting a 4-3 DE and hoping it doesn't blow up in our collective faces.

I'm used to the Eagles being good at getting to AND controlling action in the flats. I have yet to see how both our scheme AND our personnel don't hurt us with what has been a defensive staple here since before I became a fan a quarter century ago.

58 Comments:
  • I wonder how much Anthony Spencer or Demarcus Ware were actually used in coverage? How much LT was used in coverage? I think the idea of Trent Cole being in coverage is over stated. Trent Cole may not even make the roster. Heck as a 4-3 end last season he wasn't very effective, so if he can't rush the passer standing up then he's likely to be gone. Brandon Graham coming out of college was projected as a 3-4 OLB, so I'm not all that concerned with him moving to the outside. Kendricks will likely be the key to step up in his coverage. He was poor last season, but this season hopefully he can step it up. I expect on most occasions the Eagles are going to send 5. The 3-4 allows for the opportunity of zone blitzing more than the 4-3 does so guys aren't likely to be in one on one coverage that often.
  • Spencer and Ware weren't used much in coverage. And it worked so well that the Cowboys are switching their defensive system and actually moving Ware to DE (which I think will do well for him). They annually either miss the playoffs or are one and done. But if you want to keep wishing the Eagles to be more like the Cowboys....

    Cole was no less effective than any other DE on the roster last year. He is a proven pass rusher, and no one who does this for a living is going to cut him over one bad year.

    If Kendricks is playing ILB he'll concede the flat to TE's and motioned backs by alignment. If the OLB doesn't take that away it will be a problem.
  • I'm sure they'll make adjustments to play to Cole's strengths. And the comparison that Easy made to Ware is valid. Keep in mind the cowboys don't miss the playoff or are only one and done JUST because Ware doesn't cover well. That franchise makes dumb decisions like signing Romo to a contract like he's the Mike Jordan of football. No one wants the eagles to become the cowgirls, but Ware is a very effective pass rusher for them and if the Eagles can take that bright spot from their team and translate it into making Cole similar then it would be great for them.
  • But it isn't valid. Even to the Cowboy's it's not valid. They're switching their alignment AND Ware's position to alleviate him of any coverage responsibility. If he was a good OLB they would leave him there, but he's a liability in coverage, so THEY'RE being smart and covering that up by making him a full-time DE.

    It DIDN'T work for them under multiple DC's. Ware got a lot of sacks but he's always been easy to run at, or beat with screens, and short passes to the flat. Trent Cole's strength is rushing the passer. He's already been doing that at DE. Playing him at OLB and putting him in space takes him AWAY from what he's good at. Playing him as a dedicated rusher at OLB, takes a cover man off the edges. If he's outside and he doesn't cover, then who is covering outside?

    Pittsburgh has made the 3-4 almost into an art-form because they go out and get guys who also covered in college. THEN they alternate when they rush them and drop them. They make sure they have the right players for their system.

    Look, all I'm saying here is that if we're going to run a 3-4, let's make the commitment of getting the proper player to play it. Even if it means parting with old favorites.
  • And all i'm saying is let see how they utilize him first before saying it'll never work ever.
  • He's entering Hollywood levels of whining. Lets see it not work before we say it won't. It's funny people are praising the Ravens for basically get rid of players who helped them win the Super Bowl, but these same people ripping the Eagles for getting rid of people who helped them win 4 games.
  • Especially since the eagles are obviously going in a new direction. why would you automatically want to bring in a new coach if you're just gonna tie his hands and force him to work with players who havent worked out for two seasons already. I mean I get the frustration from the past few season and I get that it seems like the eagles are still far from a superbowl but if people honestly thought that just bringing in a new coach or keeping reid for that matter would have led to the eagles winning it this year then your perspective is off. Let Kelly have his chance to make his mark. Will i be disappointed if the team goes 4-12 again or worse, of course. I do expect to see some improvement but personally i'm not building myself up for anything more then 5-6 wins this year. Not saying that can't win more just that building great teams takes time. The two seasons following Kelly's rookie coaching season is where i'll be come extremely critical of him is progress isn't made. Don't get me wrong I want to see them do well this season but wanting them to and expecting them to are two different things. I'll root for em like I do every season just not getting my hopes up for a team in a rebuild that's run by a rookie coach.
  • I'm not saying that YOU shouldn't say that. By all means keep your faith.

    I however am going on the record saying that regardless of how many sacks and hits Cole gets, it will leave a gaping hole in the zone behind him. Passes will find receivers quickly and drives will be sustained. Fans will wonder why we get so many sacks and allow so many points. Like the Cowboys.

    So I'M now on the record with it. Cole in a 3-4 won't work because he can't cover, so they won't often even ask him to. They need a legit ROLB who can actually PLAY ROLB.
  • You can't say for sure that it WON'T work because they haven't even done it yet! You could say well look at this game or that game and you can see it didn't, but that was under a different coaching staff. I'm not saying that it's going to work or even that it has a high probability of working. But to "go on record" saying that it flat out won't work is ridiculous. You don't have a crystal ball, you can't predict the future. If you had just said it's highly unlikely that it will work i'd agree. But you compared him to ware who may be similar yes but is a different person all together, on a different team, who's played in a different scheme the the one Cole has been in, coached by different coaches then Cole has been and will be coached by. Saying it won't work is different than saying you don't think it'll work.
  • What I'm looking at is Trent Cole in coverage. Sean McDermott tried it. Remember how well it went? Since Cole can't cover, he can't play ROLB. It really IS that simple. LB's cover, DE's don't.

    To let Ware do what he does best, they took him off of something he sucked at badly enough where they stopped asking him to do it. An OLB that only rushes the passer leaves a vacated hole in coverage, on almost EVERY down. You move him to DE, and get an OLB who covers and you improve the overall picture.

    My hope is that if Cole isn't a DE (the roster currently lists him there) that they cut him early. I have no memory of Graham in coverage, so I can't say much about him.
  • Sean McDermott wasn't exactly a defensive mastermind in Philly. I'm not saying the new guy necessarily is but a new coach brings a new perspective and can lead to a guy getting better. Maybe there's something the coaches see in Cole that they believe they can develop so he can get better in coverage, maybe they leave him at DE who knows but to just cut a guy who's a proven pass rusher like Cole before trying and without a better answer to the problem would boggle my mind.
  • True, Sean McDermott was an idiot, but he had nothing to do with Cole being too slow to follow backs out of the backfield or bump WR's off their routes at the line.
  • For all we know though Cole could see the writing on the wall and be working as we speak to get faster and adapt to the changes that are coming in the defense.
  • Get faster at 30? Look, you believe what you like. I'm not here to convince anyone of anything, but since it IS my post I had to at least back what I said, and explain why I said it.

    But, by all means! I'll leave you to it!
  • All i way saying is you can't that it 100% has no chance of working. I'm not saying there's a huge chance it will either. My guess is they keep Cole as a DE though and try and convert Graham to OLB.
  • To whom it may concern Brandon Graham has stated he's been working out with fellow Michigan alum Lamar Woodley this off season. He's been working on coverage skills, and other techniques with a player who previously went through the same transition he has. The also have similar builds. Nevertheless I'm sure the whiners will still go on and on about how it wont work, and at the same time go on about how the Raiders made the deal of a century by trading away a quarterback who threw for over 4000 yards for a guy who couldn't beat out a rookie; all while throwing away multiple high picks at the same time. LOL
  • Me and Bnugent81 were talking about TRENT COLE. Try to keep up. I even went so far as to say that I can't say much about Graham.

    I think you may have a comprehension problem there, sport!
  • I mentioned Graham and Cole together earlier. Nevertheless you still put it down. Of course in your world the Eagles are doing everything wrong, while your number one team the Raiders are doing everything right. So how are you feeling about your other team the Chiefs? I guess you think they are doing it right too since they signed a head coach who won 4 games last year.
  • TOTALLY UNTRUE. I never said a word about Brandon Graham. I did, do, and will continue to say that Trent Cole cannot make the transition to ROLB without being a liability in coverage.

    The Chiefs are hard to read right now, but admittedly I don't follow them NEARLY as fervently as I do the Raiders/Eagles.

    FYI: The Eagles aren't doing everything wrong, but it's hard to give a door with a question mark a big ol' vote of praise.
  • ID don't see why not. You have been gushing over the comical stupidity of the Raiders all offseason. Like I wrote before Trent Cole doesn't need to play coverage. He'll likely play monster roaming and looking for weak points in the offensive set. That's if Cole will be on the team at all. Tell you what. Don't worry about the Eagles. Just continue to go on and on about how the Raiders giving away draft picks like Halloween candy is such a good thing.
  • How about we talk about THIS year instead?
  • I am talking about THIS YEAR!!!!!
  • We haven't given away any picks this year.

    You need to monitor your dosages more closely, or get some help to do it.
  • Look closely and you will see a few missing picks from this years draft. They also made a trade THIS year giving up future picks for a guy who couldn't beat out a rookie.
  • Sorry Eazy, flagged your post by accident.

    I guess flip needs to "keep up" with his own team if he feels they haven't given up picks in this years draft. Just more of his trying to spin everything Raiders into gold.
  • A "future pick" is not a pick from THIS year. Dud if you don't stop acting as loony as Hollywood and Kellyscott I'm just going to block you too. So stop being stupid.

    You've been warned. Don't make me ignore you.
  • So who are you threatening here, flip.. me or Eazy...maybe both? Is bnugent next...maybe 20dawk? Just stick to discussing football with latinferno maybe? Maybe it's your attitude towards "your" football team and how you ripped us for less that is bringing some of this on? Think about it.

    The Raiders don't have picks from this year due to 2 trades. Kind of a weak attempt to disreagrd them because they weren't made this season.
  • I've been cheering on what they've done THIS offseason. You want to keep talking about what they did in the past, go right ahead.

    Me? I'm talking about 2013.
  • In 2013 the Raiders don't have two draft picks (a 2nd and a 5th) because of 2 trades that didn't work out for them...how's that?
  • That was already said. And?
  • Flip is right when he says that THIS year they haven't really given up any picks because THIS offseason the highest pick they gave away was the 5th for Flynn. He knows they are missing a 2nd from the Palmer debacle I've beat him up on it quite a bit already.

    I think Flip is just trying to put that bone headed move (along with many others) in his rear-view and focus on what they can do now. The Eagles have made their own mistakes that we're trying to forget too we just aren't feeling the sting in the form of missing draft picks.
  • You are probably targeting this more towards Eazy but i hope you don't mind if I reply. I caught what he was trying to do. He's spinning Raider's crap into gold. He can type that the Raider's haven't given up anything THIS year but the fact is they are still paying for the trade for Palmer and they don't have a 5th either because of the trade for Aaron Curry in 2011 which hasn't worked out either. I can type that the Raiders have given up picks THIS year also...just not in this year's draft. I can spin it just like flip can.
  • I get that Flips trying to look past the past and focus on the future I just got on his case when he made it seem like Oakland was making monumental moved and were head and feet above the Eagles when it came to bringing in new talent or having the ability to draft new talent.

    Look bottom line is both teams are moving on and rebuilding. Both teams made dumb decisions. The Raiders biggest one was the Palmer trade which is still hurting them, the Eagles did it with their free agency spree in 2011. And both teams have failed to bring in talent thought the draft in recent years that blame falls on Reid and Davis.

    So both teams move on now I just didn't like Flip saying that the Raiders are now all of a sudden doing it right and the Eagles could learn a lesson from them. These two teams are in awfully similar situations the two differences are that 1. the Raiders are entering their second year with their coach so many of the players know what to expect where the Eagles guys don't and 2. that the Eagles still haven't given up as many draft picks as the Raiders.

    Both teams have question marks a QB, both have RBs with big upsides, both have WRs who have shone promise but haven't really broken out (at least not in awhile), both have defensive problems due to poor player acquisitions (Mike Huff, Nate Allen, Babin, Tommy Kelly, Nnamdi, McClain, the list goes on...)

    My point to Flip was to stop trying to make it seem like the Raider we somehow so much better off then the Eagles.
  • Point well taken but obviously not from the one who should be taking it. My main point to flip doesn't involve the Raiders as much as it does the Eagles. Stop being a hypocrite! Don't give me attitude while I'm legitimately upset with a 12-20 2 year stint and typing that I'm a horrible person with no life for posting my frustrtaions and then start whining when things don't go the way you wanted!
  • The fact is none of us will get what we want until the Eagles win the Superbowl. Because that hasn't happened everyone has their oppinons on why it hasn't happened (poor drafting, lack or WRs for years, poor QB decisions, poor free agent moves, poor coaching changes, etc...) Everyone is frustrated that the Reid didn't win us the big game after years of coming close and it being the expectation so when they nosedived these past two season it only made things worse.

    We are still a fan base who's desperate for that trophy and we are tired or waiting so people are going to criticize and nit pick until Kelly starts winning games, and since there aren't any games being played for awhile he can't silence the critics.
  • Exactly.

    And thank you for discussing the Eagles. I put up THE 12, and OFFENSIVE and DEFENSIVE NEEDS, a 2013 DRAFT WISH LIST, and SO FAR SO GOOD; yet they barely get a nibble. Worse than that, nobody is putting up anything. Surely if I can find things to write about the Eagles (and none of the previously mentioned posts are complaint based), other people are smart enough to find SOME subject to discuss, right?
  • Here's the thing:

    I'm a fan of BOTH teams. I want good things for BOTH teams.

    I LIKE what I have seen so far from the Raiders. This year represents a sharp change in how we used to do things and the fact is, we have to pay the bills we ran up.

    I DON'T like most of what I've seen from the Eagles so far. They've brought in a couple players that I can vibe with, but like time management seemed to be an Achilles heel for Reid, all indications are that communication will be Chip Kelly's.

    If something frustrates me I'm going to say it. If I like something I'm going to say that too. But like I do EVERY YEAR, I'm (as you said) focusing on what's coming, not what's past. I like what I see in the Raiders future. I can't (at least so far) say the same for the Eagles.

    What's crazy is despite all the complaining about MY complaining, no one else has yet to point out what we should all be so HAPPY about, despite the fact that I KEEP CALLING FOR SOMEONE TO DO IT.
  • No...you keep ignoring the comments when people do it. Besides , no one is telling you to be happy or that everyone on this website is. You are just going overboard with both the Eagles and the Raiders and we are pointing that out to you. You feel you need to point out where the Eagles are going wrong and I feel I should point out to you where you are going wrong. Seems like I'm far from the only one.
  • I get it. I just don't get why you title post saying "here's what the eagle's are getting so wrong" and "making moves like a boss"

    I'm all for voicing your opinion on your skepticism of Kelly's communication and for all intensive purposes you could be right. Coming out and saying it's what they are doing SO wrong makes it seem like this thing is destined to fail before it starts because Kelly wasn't even allowed to talk to his guys till Monday.

    Then you post "making moves like a boss" or them cutting McClain and say the Eagles should take a lesson from the Raiders for trading Palmer for low round picks making it seem like they are weaving straw into gold.

    Yes I to have hesitations about Kelly but the moves that have been made I believe are in the best interest of the team. He brought in guys even you said you could "vibe" with. He's gotten rid of the under performing overpaid players of the past regime. All of those things give me a positive outlook. Do some of the guys he's brought in have question marks? Yes. Does every player on the team know what the whole plan is? No. It hasn't even been a week though that he's been able to talk to his players and the quotes we were getting we're only from day one. He's a new coach, with a new system, working (mostly) with guys he's never worked with and guys (again mostly) who haven't worked in his exact system. So its going to take time to get everyone on the same page.

    As for the Raiders I don't want you to think I'm just bashing them. You saying that "this year represents a sharp change in how we used to do things and the fact is, we have to pay the bills we ran up." is exactly what I was trying to say to you. YES all of those cuts they made with their bad problem player are steps in the right direction. It just seems that lately you've been looking at the Eagles and taking a mole hill and making it a mountain while you look a the Raiders and treat them making a few small smart moves like they discovered how to transform lead into gold.

    For once I'd just like you to make it seem how it is. Both teams have been making smart, conservative, mostly small moves that have the potential to set them both up for future success in the next few seasons.
  • Look, Take it how you need to take it. I'm not changing my tune unless I change my mind.
  • can you just clear up what lesson you wanted the Eagles to learn from the Raiders Palmer and Flynn trades. Because that was what originally got me against you?
  • Let's be SPECIFIC here. The PALMER trade is where I said that. So what do I think CHIP KELLY could stand to learn?

    We were on the verge of dropping Carson Palmer for free. It was as much a cost-cutting move as it was getting rid of a malcontent. The cap hit would have been 9.34 million regardless of whether he was traded or dropped. But instead of just dropping him we got a 6th round pick out of it.

    Consider what happened when T.O. became a malcontent, or when Trotter started squawking about more money. The Eagles lost BOTH of those guys for nothing where if they'd just shopped them when it started to go bad, they could have at least gotten SOMETHING for them.

    Reid/Banner was the guy in harness back then, but Kelly/Roseman don't seem to have a better handle on the situation than Banner had.

    Consider that Nnamdi Asomugha had his pick of 2 teams that will likely be in the playoffs this year. The Eagles didn't eve TRY to get anything for him. The Giants snatched Cullen Jenkins right up, didn't they? Packaged together Asomugha and Jenkins are worth a 3rd wouldn't you say? Instead of talking Asomugha up as trade bait, Kelly spoke vaguely of him, held onto him forever and never floated a public trade bubble for the guy to drive up a market for him.

    The Eagles didn't even try.

    For WEEKS Palmer's release was anticipated, but instead of simply making him garbage, we decided to try to TRADE our garbage. AND IT WORKED!! A 6th rounder isn't a 1st, but it isn't nothing either.

    Try. THAT is the lesson.
  • Ok that's a little better. It seemed like you were bragging about getting a 6th for a guy that had cost you a 1st and a 2nd. I get that you got something for him and you're right it's better then nothing.

    As far as the Jenkins and Asomugha releases I don't know the specifics other then Nnamdi is not making 1.35 million with incentives. I don't think there was a team on the planet that would have traded for Nnamdi under the contract the Eagles had him on. He also said he wasn't willing to renegotiate and that may have been extended to any team he would have been traded to. Also the league is flush with aging CBs so teams looking for one don't have to look far let alone feel the need to give up anything for an expensive one who needs to prove he can still play. To me that all adds up to a release.

    Jenkins could be a similar situation. When teams know that a team is going to cut a player it drives what you can get back for them down. There market for DTs is a little better then the QB market these day so interest just may not have been there but who knows.

    Speaking on the Palmer trade Oakland may have benefited from the lack of available QBs, and a guy like Palmer who has a big arm and seemingly a few years left in the tank clearly would draw more interest on the open market then Cullen Jenkins. My guess is that Palmer actually had a few teams sniffing around or at least Bruce Arians liked Palmer and decided to risk a 6th. It's very low risk high reward for him.

    You're right it's nice to get something for a player that you and everyone else knows is already on their way out but if the Raiders are so good at doing it why didn't they do it with McClain, Tommy Kelly, or Huff? My guess is that there just wasn't interest in trading for those guys or Asomugha or Jenkins.
  • I mentioned earlier in the week that perhaps the we could recoup this years 5th rounder by trading McClain, but then I thought, "There is no way on Earth I'd give up any thing for a guy who can't stay out of cuffs." I figure if I won't, why would anyone else?

    Tommy Kelly was due 6.5 million this year. With our new system de-emphasizing the D-line as playmakers, it's more sensible to pay role player like role players. It's doubtful that we could have gotten much for Kelly, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him back in July on a 1-year deal.

    Huff is a good question. I'd have rather seen them keep him, but he was set to make 8 mil in 2013. He refused to re-negotiate and is now making less in B-more.

    Reggie isn't playing in Oakland. Only 18 players who were part of the organization when AL DAVIS died Oct. 8, (my ex's birthday) 2011, are still on the roster. Here's a link to a March 12th NFL.com article talking about Palmer, McClain, DHB, Huff and Kelly. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000150134/article/darrius-heywardbey-michael-huff-cut-by-raiders

    None of this is a surprise to Raider fans and almost all of these moves (not Huff) are breaths of fresh air.
  • I'm just saying it could have been a similar situation with the players that were let go in Philly. Jenkins maybe could have been shopped a bit because I don't think his price tag was all that high after the Eagles redid his deal last season. I know he was due a 5 million dollar roster bonus which he was still supposed to get but idk if he was already paid that money.

    Nnamdi on the other hand was guaranteed at least 4 mill on the contract he did with the Eagles. I doubt the Eagles (or anyone else for that matter) would have redone a deal with him and kept that guaranteed money. So for him it was smart to force their hand and not restructure. He knew Philly wasn't gonna pay him that monster contract and he knew he was gonna get 4 mill anyway if they cut him. So he let them cut him, took the 4 mill and then found a job with a contender. I believe his contract with San Fran could go as high as 3 million if he reaches certain incentives. So this contract plus the 4 mill the Eagles already have to pay him it's like he's gonna make between 5-7 million. NO team was going to be willing to pay him that number outright.
  • It's exactly the same situation as to why the Eagles didn't waste their time with trying to trade some of their own players. Someone is just nit-picking again. Asomugha wouldn't restructure his deal to stay with the Eagles...why would he restructure a deal to go somewhere he couldn't choose? There was NO way any team was going to trade for him at 15 million and his deal with gauaranteed money set at less than 1.5 with him making a possible 3 million should have cleared that up for anybody. Jenkins wasn't picked up immediately by the Giants which meant any team could have reached out to agree to a deal that is valued at about half of what he would have been owed by the Eagles (maybe not quite that but it certainly isn't the same). Why would anyone give up a draft pick on a player that everyone had a shot at when there were other options available? The Eagles got at least something for Havili...they put feelers out for Lewis but no one is biting so far. The NFL isn't Madden where you throw out feelers for just about anyone on your roster you don't want anymore and you can pick up at least a 7th round draft pick. Palmer was at a position of weakness in free agency and the Raiders got next to nothing for him.
  • No I think Flip had a valid question. I don't think it's nit picking. I think he saw the Raiders get something for what they were going to throw away and thought it would have been nice for the Eagles to do the same. The problem is I don't think the financials were in the right spot fo the Eagles with their guys and the market wasn't as dry for CBs and DT.

    The Raiders were smart to get a trade and like you said and I said before I think the trade was a result of the lack of QBs available not only on the open market but also in this years draft. I think that Flip said the Raiders we going to pay him something like 9 million either way so my guess is the Cards are only taking on about 4 million of his original contract. If they had to take on the full amount I think they would have waited for him to be cut.

    Asomugha was clearly a financial decision on his part. After Flip questioned why the Eagles didn't try to trade him I did some digging and I could be wrong but with the contract he had with the Eagles he was guaranteed 4 million. My guess is the Eagles wanted to redo his deal and the deal would have been something more like a 4 million dollar deal if he reach certain incentives. Now idk about you but getting 4 million to be fired sounds a lot better then taking a pay cut and have to work to get 4 million. Call me lazy but that's just me. My guess is Asomugha (or at least his agent) had a similar thought process so he didn't restructure took his 4 million and left. Once he hit the open market he got offers from teams who obviously weren't going to pay top dollar, and definitely weren't going to give him any where close to 4 million guaranteed. So with 4 million already in his back pocket he accepted a deal for I think about 3 million with roughly half of it been guaranteed. So at the end of the day he worked the system and he's going to be paid between 5-7 million this season. Not bad for a guy who stunk it up for the past two years.

    Jenkins on the other hand again I still don't know what the deal was but I do know that when they redid his deal his salary was dropped really low but he still had a 5 million dollar roster bonus due. I'm not sure if that roster bonus was paid last year or if it was due to him this year. If it was this year then him being cut could have been just to save that money. If not it looks to me like just a lack of interest on the trading block.
  • To think that any team would deal for Asomugha at 15 million even if they had the intent to try to restructure with how bad he played is a bit much. Added to how much flip piles on Kelly and praises the Raiders why should I feel this is any different? I think you give flip too much credit but hey that's me.

    I know Jenkins contract was restructured last year but I think I saw that he was still due around 5 million this year...maybe most of that was due in the bonus you type of. It was originally a 5 year deal worth an average of 5 million per but not sure what it dropped to. The Giants signed him to a 3 year 8 million dollar deal. I honestly was a bit surprised the Eagles let him go before they let Patterson go. He was definitely a better fit in the 3-4 playing in it before. It was the money obviously and I did type that it was a possibilty that both he and Patterson would be gone with how much they were getting paid.
  • I mean Flip had a valid point maybe it was more excitement that the Raiders actually got something for a guy everyone knew they were going to toss aside that made him look at the Eagles cuts and say "hey why didn't they do that?"

    And when he originally cleared that up to me I asked myself the same thing. After looking up what guys were still owed and what they got on the open market it seemed pretty clear that it was all financial.

    Nnamdi wanted his 4 million no matter what and no one else would pick up that tab so the Eagles got stuck biting the bullet. Jenkins I guess was due 5 million and no one was going to pick that up either so the Eagles cut ties to save money. Now I don't know if Jenkins was approached about restructuring again. My guess is that he was and he probably said "look I did this once before either you want me and you need to honor the contract or let me go and find some place that does want me." Because I'm pretty sure he's actually salary was like under a million last season and only supposed to be a million and change this season so it was that 5 million dollar bonus that was the issue.
  • Over excitement for the Raiders and too much doom and gloom for the Eagles especially when looking at where both these teams are. Seems like that is what many barkers are trying to get across to flip right now.


    That's always kind of part of it too, isn't it? We don't know what happens ALL the time behind the walls in the NFL offices. How many reports leak out days, months and sometimes years after the fact?
  • I think Flip is very critical of Chip Kelly right now and that's his right. After talking though a lot of this stuff in the forums though I can see where he's coming from I think to a lot of other people it comes off as over excitement and doom and gloom right off the bat.

    He's a Raiders fan who is seeing his team make moves away from the bad decisions and towards smarter ones. I thought they were coming over a little over hyped. Like saying cutting McClain was making moves "like a boss" or that the Eagles could take a lesson from the Palmer. To me it came off like the Raiders just acquired Adrian Peterson, Calvin Johnson and the number one overall pick. Maybe it was over excitement on his part, maybe me not understanding the tone with which he was using, maybe a bit of both. After talking about the Palmer trade comment I get the feeling it was less bashing the Eagles moves and more if they had even tried to work out trades for guys they had let go.

    Looking back I see that he had similar excitement for the moves the Eagles made early on and I guess I was wondering where that optimism went. I had thought that Flip had well, for lack of a better word, flipped and lost positivity he showed earlier. He didn't.

    With free agency coming to an all but screeching halt there isn't much to focus on now besides how the teams are preparing their players and speculating on the draft. His attention turned to Chip Kelly and we all know he's not his biggest fan, and the only person who can convince him that Kelly is the man for the job is Kelly. That is only going to happen if Kelly wins games which can't happen for awhile because there are no games yet so the whole discussion is pointless at this time.

    Flip still likes the Eagles he's still positive on the moves they've been making and how the roster is being set up. He just questions the coach a little more vocally then everyone else does right now.

    As for the Raiders he knows they are rebuilding also and he's just happy and excited to see cancerous players being removed. Both teams are making smart roster moves and both teams have the potential to turn things around. The fact that Flip doesn't like the coaching staff of the Eagles isn't gonna chance anytime soon. I have my doubts about them too I just tend to have a "ok lets wait and see" attitude about it at this moment.
  • You try to describe flip better than he does. You see him your way and I'll see him as a hypocritical fan who likes to be read and doesn't truly value anybody's opinions but his own. I don't believe you truly understand some of the things he typed to some of us for being down on the Eagles after their last two years. He basically typed to us that the Eagles were fine, that they didn't need a coaching change and that we were horrible fans who didn't back their team and needed to find a life (there was more...just trying to keep it as short as I can). His change in attitude goes a lot deeper than just him questioning Kelly for me and I think it's deeper than that for flip. Of course he won't admit it though.
  • Thank you for the nod Bnugent.

    It seems that you get that I'm upset because care. And the weird thing is you seem to think it's okay for someone to change his mind. That's rare online.
  • I have no problem with changing ones mind or opinion...we all do it. It's a little different when you "bury" numerous people on here acting all high and mighty and above what you are insulting them for only to start doing the same for what I believe is much less.
  • What are you TALKING about?! Burying who? I'm the one who's been catching s*** for being "over-enthusiastic" about my Raiders. ALL of you are less than happy about the Eagles, but when I mentioned the Raiders, this place just went NUTS! It's like you were all pissed that I had something to be happy about. BOTH of my teams were 4-12. 2012 wasn't easy for this guy, but one of my squads looks to be SERIOUS about getting out of the hole.

    Look, a guy who gives up drinking today still has to fix all the stuff in his life that he'd been neglecting or broke. Some of it will be old damage some new damage, but the point is that he stops going left and starts going RIGHT. Even small steps are good. I'm thrilled with almost everything they've done so far. It's less EACH move and more the CONSISTENCY of the moves.

    We've saved money, moved off malcontents or guys who were just collecting paychecks, purged ourselves of a criminal, and we even managed to get something for someone everyone knew we didn't want and would have simply released.
  • You know exactly what I'm "talking" about but I guess this is just more of your "wanting to move on and look towards the future". You buried many of us last year for being upset over the Eagles mounting losses and told us we were bad fans and bad people because we put too much emphasis on wanting the Eagles to win a championship. Now that you aren't happy with some Eagle moves lately you have moved into the spot of whiner #1 on yardbarker but because it's you everything is okay in the world. No more "get behind your team no matter what"...you're looking for things to complain about. I'll be curious to see how this goes. Will flip keep showing his hollywood side and complain at each and every step? Will he whine about every draft pick that he didn't predict even if it seems like a solid pick? It's all up to you, flip.
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