Posted April 04, 2013

ONE of the key things that the Raiders and other teams (like the Redskins, Giants, and Cowboys for example) are getting right, that the Eagles definitely ARE getting wrong, is the Raiders players are already learning and getting ready to excel in their respective systems. 

Each Raider can look at his system and say "Well I'm not great at this, but I'm great at that. I'll bone up on that, but I have this talent that I can emphasize in our system" 

The Eagles players still don't even have a complete idea of the THEME, according to Evan Mathis, let alone any schematics, keys or nuances. They can't get a jump on ANYTHING. There isn't even opportunity for guys to meet off the calendar and help each other out with base concepts as executed in this system. That creates a big chance that much of the roster will struggle in OTA's and camp with what ordinarily would be mundane things (timing, spacing, angles, base reads, etc.)

It's easy for fans to say "Well if a guy struggles to learn the system, we'll just cut him." But what do you do when everyone or most of the roster struggles? (Like the O-line did with Howard Mudd's technique.) A handful of guys behind the learning curve is one thing, but when your ENTIRE ROSTER is late getting started, it's quite another.

I think it was Eugenious who (idiotically) made reference to the idea that we could somehow use ignorance as a successful strategy. Nowhere in the history of our planet has being mentally unprepared EVER been recorded as being an advantage in any competition. I get that you're used to arguing with me, but it's really common sense and history that you're arguing with. Right now fans are advocating Chip Kelly not prepping his troops. Fans are literally cheering on a lack of preparation.

Right now we are already behind all of our division competition, (all of whom are used to their systems, the positions they play, and their roles); yet apparently we still don't think is a good time to try to catch up. Instead, we're getting a late start for no good reason. Seriously, at this time of year, after having brought in FA's and assembled a Draft board, they HAVE TO know what they have planned, so there no longer is a justifiable reason for why the core of our roster is still in the dark about what they're paid to do.

So there you have it. Promoting ignorance as a winning strategy, is what the Eagles are doing wrong.

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  • Come on, flip. I know you're not a Kelly fan but why do you just keep piling on? Is this just you doing more of your assuming or do you know that all these teams are learning schemes and the Eagles haven't started working on theirs at all (or is it just that none of these teams are going through the coaching changes that the Eagles are?)? You do get that with the new CBA that coaches have limited contacts with their players, don't you? The Eagles were one of the first teams to get the players in for their off season conditioning and have a voluntary veteran OTA scheduled about a week before the draft....I honestly don't think the CBA allows them to do any more than that. This isn't a one year fix and Kelly is also learning as he goes. You expect way too much from Kelly (and honestly forgave way too much when it was Reid wearing the headset).
  • No assuming here! Go to other teams websites and see what their players are saying and doing ALREADY in preparation for 2013.

    Here is an article link

    from my SO FAR SO GOOD post. In that article Evan Mathis says: "Yeah, I was a little bit frustrated. I wanted to know. Our job is playing football and we didn't even know what kind of football we are going to be playing until now," he said. "At least, we have some idea now. There's no way to translate an entire theme in one night. It seems to me like everyone came in here with a lot of urgency ready to grasp the new concepts and hit the ground running. We're going to be going full speed training and learning the schemes."

    Compare what you read from other players on other teams with what Mathis said just 3 days ago. We're behind already. That's not me assuming anything. That's the research YOU just did.

    CBA be damned. If other teams can find ways to get SOMETHING done, why can't we?
  • I'm sure Chip is gonna be handing out HW assignments all throughout OTA's, but I'm not getting the feeling that these guys are completely in the dark. Graham obviously knows he's either going to play DE or OLB which means they'll probably use him at both in some form or another and he says he's preparing for both.

    As for what the players have to say well...

    “Chip usually runs a very fast paced offense,” said Evan Mathis. “It would help to have an offensive line that’s athletic and tough enough to finish every play throughout the game. Our line fits that mold. I don’t anticipate there being any difficulty for the OL’s transition under the new regime.”

    Added Jason Kelce: “For me it works out better. I can probably stay where I’m at [weight-wise]. The no-huddle, zone blocking scheme is something I am used to. It benefits me to be in this scheme.”

    “All energy, straight energy,” linebacker DeMeco Ryans told “Coach started speaking and everybody — everybody — was right there on every word. No doubt everybody is excited about a fresh start and what lies ahead for us.”

    “After this initial meeting, the feeling is even more exciting for me. I loved what I heard about how we’re going to be doing things,” guard Evan Mathis said. “It’s going to be structured and very well planned out all across the board. It seems like they put together an incredible staff and it definitely gives us a lot of reason to be excited.”

    “We’re all excited to see how it works. I think Coach wants his playmakers to make plays, and I’m all about that. I’ve had a busy offseason, a lot of good things going personally and with my training, so I’m ready to go,” wide receiver Jeremy Maclin said. “I think everyone is ready to go. It’s been a long time since we’ve been together. This is the first day of the season for us. That’s what it feels like.”

    Quotes like that say to me that he's telling HIS PLAYERS what he wants. Maybe it's annoying as a fan not to know the "THEME" but the players are obviously not walking away scratching their heads.

    Personally I don't care that I don't know what type of blocking scheme they are going to run or the specifics on defensive schematics. It seems to me the guys who needed to get a message from Kelly on what to do before OTA's got that message and if not then it seems they prepared for anything.

    But to say that everyone on the Eagles roster is in the dark about what they are walking into is ignorant. It's no mystery what kind of offensive system he runs, and it's been no secret that the Eagles are moving to a 4-3 under/3-4 defense. These guys know that and while maybe not everything that Kelly did in Oregon will come with him to the NFL a good chunk of it will. He's talked about the types of players he wants, he's said that he wants to score quickly on offense, and he's been clear about there being defensive shift.
  • Absolutely correct, bnugent. Flip seems to be hanging on just about every negative move he feels the Eagles have made this year (and even finding things that just don't seem to be there) and spinning every little thing the Raiders do into gold.
  • I do believe that all the Eagles players and fans are going to go through a very frustrating year with Mr. Kelly as the head coach. He has said the right things so far, but it is only a matter of time before everyone see that this guy is not ready for the NFL. I do not care what his system does at the College level. There have been many great college coaches that have tried the pros and failed miserably. I cannot say he will fail, but I do believe that he will and will set this franchise back at least 5 years for all of his mistakes. IF he lasts more than 3 years I would be completely amazed. Hold on to you hats Philly as this is going to be a real bad ride.
  • First off he's already come out and said that he won't be running the exact offense that he ran in college. He's said that great coaches know how to adapt and change and that's what he plans on doing.

    Secondly, this is a guy who Bill Bilichick brought to so he could pick Kelly's brain so there must be something there if one of the best coaches in the league is asking him for advice.

    Lastly, the season hasn't even started!
  • I find it amusing that fans who aren't singing Chip Kelly's praises either, are upset that I voice concerns about the guy.

    If you recall, I didn't want him BEFORE he interviewed. I was not impressed by his introductory press conference, in fact I was worried by his Steve Spurrier-like comment of "Football is football". His staff has no NFL experience on it at any of the position coaches. His second in command is as green as he is. His players entered the meet and greet with him not anxious and excited, but "frustrated". Now he has them climbing ladders and doing hurdles in the workouts.

    Anybody here have any idea what a hurdle can do to a hamstring that is not in condition to do hurdles? We're talking GRADE 3 hamstring strains here. These guys aren't college age anymore.

    Nothing I've seen or heard about Kelly, has indicated that he knows where he is yet. And for all of your bluster about MY concerns, the nicest thing the rest of you have to say about the guy is "Well the season isn't here yet."

    Until proven wrong I'll stick to my opinion, thank you. Especially if my only other option is this mealy-mouthed, shoulder shrugging, sheep meekly led to slaughter type resignation most of you seem to have.

    Fact is, I didn't want him and I won't pretend I do now. I can be won over, and I have been before, but something tells me THIS guy doesn't have it in him.

    You like him? FINE! You eat him.
  • I'm not saying you have to hop on the band wagon, break out your pom poms and become his biggest fan. Not even close. I'm all for questioning the guy's capabilities. But you're argument in THIS post is that he isn't relaying the message to his players when you have no idea if that is true. You aren't on the team. All the quotes I put up there are guys on the roster who are excited about what he is doing.

    My guess is that players are getting told specifics about what they are doing and what they need to do. Otherwise you'd have people on that roster saying the same thing that you said "um coach why are we doing hurdles?".

    Just because he doesn't explain everything to the media and fans doesn't mean he guys aren't being instructed as to the changes they need to make.

    I'll be the first to admit I'm not completely sold on the guy either. Personally idk why he hasn't signed any veteran offensive linemen, but he isn't going to tell us why. Just like he isn't going to hold a press conference and explain every little nuance that's going through his head about blocking schemes, or whatever it is you want him to tell you.

    Go ahead and question the guy but question on him on things you can prove he's doing. I'll be the first to rip him a new one if he starts letting Jason Peters take snaps at QB, but don't jump on the man because he isn't gushing about his plans for everyone to hear. Football is all about strategy and it would seem to me him staying tight lipped around the media on specifics is going to keep you, me, and every coach in the league guessing.
  • I don't want him to tell ME what he's doing. I don't play for the team. I just think it would be nice if Nick Foles wasn't saying he can run a system he hasn't seen.

    Here's a direct quote from Evan Mathis after MONDAY'S meet and great dinner:
    "Yeah, I was a little bit frustrated. I wanted to know. Our job is playing football and we didn't even know what kind of football we are going to be playing until now," he said. "At least, we have some idea now. There's no way to translate an entire theme in one night. It seems to me like everyone came in here with a lot of urgency ready to grasp the new concepts and hit the ground running. We're going to be going full speed training and learning the schemes."

    He doesn't sound like a man with "Specifics". "Some idea" isn't specifics. The PLAYERS still don't have specifics. So what are they doing until OTA's.

    I like more than one team, so I look around and see what other teams are doing, and you know what? Many teams have leaders that organized to have something going. The Eagles don't. What would they run through?!

    Considering that we finished DEAD LAST in our division AND the entire NFC Conference, you'd think a sense of urgency (action, not words) would be in order.

    I look around the NFL and I see Tom Brady working out with T.O. I see Russell Wilson holding a get acquainted passing camp with Percy Harvin an dhis other WR's. I see the Raiders players getting involved with each other and the fans. What's that old line about being the first in and last out?
  • You hear about Tom Brady and T.O. or Wilson and Harvin because it's big news. Harvin was a huge acquisition and it's great that Wilson reached out so they could work together. It's news because it's a playoff team who got a big time guy that many consider to be the missing piece of the puzzle.

    The T.O. story is only a story because T.O. is a former big name. Brady still would have been there working out. He does it every season they said. It's news now because T.O. showed up.

    I'm sure the Eagles have been working out. I'm sure some have gotten together to work together. I'm sure some guys have reached out to the new players as well it's just not news because like you said the Eagles were dead last, and none of the players brought in were considered big moves.

    If news broke that Vick began throwing with James Casey most people would be like who cares the Eagles were garbage last season.

    As far as the Mathis quote, they didn't know what kind of football they were going to be playing because the coaches weren't allowed to tell them until this past Monday. Now they have "some idea" maybe it would be nicer if they knew everything, but my guess is that there will be a lot of new things and for that reason the coaches are going to ease them into it rather then bombarding them with everything at once and making it overwhelming.

    The Raider's have the benefit of having the same head coach as last year so the players on the roster last year can go to the new guys and start working with them. Kelly didn't have that luxury because no one on his roster this year was on his roster last year, and the league prevented him from contacting his players up until this past Monday.
  • Nobody is telling you to like him. Many of us have our own questions about Kelly but nothing he has done is reason to emphasize the negatives like you seem to do daily. I just question why you rip just about every move he makes before even seeing what he has to offer when the team is actually on the field (and you still make comments regarding how Andy Reid only had an off year last year...hmmmm). You go out of your way to complain about the Eagles anymore after ripping most of us for legitimately being down on a struggling team that went 12-20 the last two years. Spin it what ever way you want flip but your comments seem extremely biased against a coach you openly state you don't like and hypocritical when looking back on the insults you sent our way. Don't bother explaining why you're like this now and how we brought this out in you. I think the Andy Reid firing brought this out in you and nothing else.

    The sheep comment is pretty funny with how you still bleat your forgiveness to Reid after what he helped let this team become the last two years.
  • I don't FORGIVE Andy Reid. There's nothing to forgive! It's just football. And yes, he DID have an off year. His son DIED you moron! Regardless of what YOU feel about Garrett Reid, his father actually loved the man. Those of us with a soul get that. Way to prize entertainment over human suffering!

    But back to THIS situation.

    I find it amusing how none of you like my Raiders, yet you FLOCK to my posts about them. I mention Chip Kelly here and you RUN back to talking about Reid. Straggle back a bit and look at the traffic on this page. It's almost dead in terms of Eagles discussions. It's almost like you "people" would rather discuss ANYTHING ELSE these days. I know I would!

    What positive things are YOU posting about these days. I put up one entitled "SO FAR, SO GOOD" just to see what you all would add to it. Just a social experiment. Admittedly I didn't add much myself because what CAN you say? I just threw out a blurb and a link to get the ball rolling. I even refrained from saying ONE negative word about the Eagles. Yet most of you didn't even bother to say one POSITIVE word about them. Too busy discussing my Raiders, I guess.

    You talk about Kelly's moves. What moves? I'm sure he has input in what kind of players he'd like, but he has no GM power of any kind. Ike Sopoaga, Cary Williams, Connor Barwin, those are all Roseman. So again I ask (besides the stuff I named above) what EXACTLY has this guy done? What "MOVES" has he made that I'm too hyper-critical of? From where I sit it seems he's done jack diddly.

    QUICK! Regale me with another round of "We'll see." How I LOOOONG to read the words "The season hasn't gotten here yet." FYI dingus, I HAVE a frickin calendar.

    Forgiveness. If you had any balls I'd compliment you on their size.
  • Yo, hollywood. Why do you twist just about everything I type. Where do I ever bring Reid's son into this? My mention of you thinking Reid just had an "off" year turns into you assuming I don't feel for Reid and his family or Garrett Reid and that I don't have a soul? I'll tell you what, are absolutely terrible when it comes to trying to figure out what people are feeling and what type of character they are. Go ahead and ignore the FACT that I buried hollywood for many cold words he typed on here about Reid and his son and spin what I typed that had only to do about a 4 win season and some horrible football decisions Andy Reid has made the last couple years. Reid has just had an off year according to you...the 4 and 12 season had nothing to do with some of the absolutely terrible moves he has been part of the last couple years I guess?

    As for the positive moves the last couple DAYS you're right the Eagles haven't made any so I have refrained from commenting too often. I haven't exactly seen them making horrible moves lately either. You comment that we are like flip. We just don't look for things to whine about and don't agree with your doom and gloom just because you think the Eagles are getting a late start. It is the off season after all and some of us with a brain (you don't mind if I borrow some of your words, do you?) get that the CBA only allows so many workouts at this point in the year which makes it tough for new coaches. This was something the players wanted so what are teams to do...ignore rules while making players do something they fought against? I saw plenty of barkers questioning the assistant coaching moves and Kelly deciding to bring back Vick. Just because we don't agree with everything you type doesn't mean we are just following along but as for me I will continue to have hope. What freakin' choice do I honestly have? Boycott? Yeah, you and hollywood have fun with that again. LOL. put ONE positive post up recently with a few generic words after constantly burying moves the Eagles have made (while typing praise for vanilla moves by the Raiders) and we're supposed to flock to post? Sorry I failed your test...or simply didn't show up to take it.

    Just wanted to post a little comment from last November from a barker in response to their everlasting optimism which included burying many of us for simply discussing a team that was struggling:

    I still love my EAGLES! Real love isn't conditional even when they suck, they're still my guys. Glad to I'm not alone in pulling for our guys. :)

    Recognize it, flip? I guess love for your football team is conditional...or maybe being upset with a team on it's way to a 4-12 season is a no-no but looking for things to complain about after "your" team made a decision you were against is okay. Is that "having balls" or just being a hypocrite?
  • I had no idea that you "buried" Hollywood. I didn't block him just to read up on his spats with you. I tend to ignore him all but completely. Whatever made you think I followed your arguments? My aren't YOU self-important.

    As for my boycott, I DID have fun with it. I saved a bunch of money AND started some new traditions. I spend on Eagles stuff again but NOWHERE NEAR the level I used to. Seems a fellow can root on a team just as anonymously from his (or a friends) living room as he can from being one of 66,000 who paid over $150 to get in. But you go RIGHT ON being a sheep who believes that your dollar shows your love.

    As far as my quote, why would I be mad if I didn't care? If I were indifferent why would I bring the moves up at all? Why would I be frustrated? If I hated the Eagles then why wouldn't I applaud what I see as self-defeating moves? It seems your own logic escapes you. Either that or you simply didn't think it all the way through before you opened you mouth. Next time think first before you talk to me.

    See here's the thing tough guy; for all your soliloquies and your 8 page responses to me, for all your thumbing through my archives, and your on-the-rag hysterics, you STILL can't muster a single word of praise for this team. So you see my friend, your words....they have a ring hollow to them. For all your bluster, you're just as dissatisfied as I am.

    You're just too much of a sheep to admit it.
  • Tough guy? Because I don't agree with everything the great birdflipper types? I'm self-important?...from the guy who has a hard time getting through a few posts without telling us how wonderful he is and how spot on his posts are even though many of them aren't (or haven't you noticed that I'm not the only one that strongly disagrees with many of your points lately?...not even close...we all can't be wrong). Hell, you've even flat out told me how much better you are than the rest of us on here. I laughed but held my tongue (fingers) when you typed to 20dawk a while back that as former football players you two have to come across as this sites leaders or the brains of this site or something to that affect. LOL. Again, I'm self-important?

    Why do you assume that I put lots of money into the Eagles myself? I know why you do it...because you try to read into people from how you take their comments just like you state that you read into what the Eagles are doing by checking out their website and you do pretty poorly with both honestly. I have stated on here (a few times actually) that I never have been a big gear guy (a couple shirts and a few hats that I almost never wear) and I would rather watch my games in the comfort of my own home but I guess you missed that too. You seem to miss a lot that I type because many of your comments and accusations towards me don't fit what I'm about, aren't what I type on here and aren't me at all. Keep guessing what I'm about and assuming instead of reading my posts besides my replies to your comments and articles.

    Addressing your post again, where do I state that you hate the Eagles or didn't you actually read my post or get my point? I'm basically stating that YOU were the one insinuating that some of us hated the Eagles and were turning our backs on them just because we weren't happy with the way the Eagles season was shaping up last year (do you even know what a hypocrite is?). You hammmered us with insults but now that you aren't happy with all things Eagles it's okay to complain? Whatever happened to that My life is in a good's only football attitude? We both know what happened so let me explain. Andy Reid was fired and the coach birdflipper wanted didn't get hired. I'm just glad you haven't thrown a tantrum and started firing out posts one after another like you did a couple years ago...and you comment that I'm having hysterics. LOL!

    My's been there at times just like my what I feel are the appropriate times and not just looking for things to praise or whine about like you've been doing with both your teams. I have dissed Kelly and the Eagles for re-signing Mike Vick and even stated that could be strike one where the fans are concerned. I typed I wasn't thrilled with the signings of Shurmur or Davis and even typed that I'm not totally sold on the Kelly hiring but that doesn't mean I am going to turn into hollywoodeagle all of a sudden. I'm still going to look for reasons to hope this team can be successful and that Kelly's system will work and even when I can't find any I won't look for reasons to complain. I stated I liked some of the free agent signings and stated I was hopeful that some of the injury concerns pan out. You and I have had opposing words on Chung and Phillips (Phillips pre and post free agency actually). I stated I like the Barwin signing, the Casey signing and I stated that overall the Eagles did a solid job in filling needs with young, hungry players in free agency which should help the draft process go much smoother. I apologize if it wasn't enough for you but just like you stated there is a lull right now. Maybe you would be happy if I post my opinion on Desean Jackson's photo shoot highlighting his Cali-swag?

    Dissatisfied as you, flip? I'm not even sure hollywood is as dissastisfeid as you right now.

  • Didn't read your book I just skimmed it. Still no praise for your team, just more BirdflipperBirdflipperBirdflipper.

    Seems I've become the reason you even come on here.
  • Good way to cop out, flip. Nice non move! LOL. Don't flatter yourself. You're not the reason I come here but I have to admit that I don't mind trying to set some blowhards on this site as straight as I can.
  • No one as been able to post anything recently because nothing is happened. The Raiders made a couple trades that's why there is something to talk about there.

    The fact is that since free agency has died down there's nothing to really discuss. Kelly was for the first time allowed to contact his players on Monday. The brought draft prospects in, yawn.

    We can keep speculating who they are going to draft or if they should take Geno Smith but those topics have been talked to death at this point. I could start a post on how I think the Eagles should have gotten a veteran linemen in free agency... then get agreed with for the next few days but what's the point.

    I can only speak for myself but I comment on your Raiders posts because 1. you usually mention the Eagles in some form or another or 2. you seem to try and make it seem like the Raiders are so much better off the the Eagles right now. When in reality they are in very similar situations.
  • He may. He may not. I know one thing though. Andy Reid NEVER had it in him. Things had to change. Reid progressively regressed as a head coach. Seriously, there were so many things wrong with him that I could write a War and Peace length book about it and still have enough source material for a trilogy. Even then, that might not cover it.
  • Had Reid drafted well we most likely wouldn't be having this conversation because the talent would have been on the roster and they wouldn't have had to go on their "dream team" spending spree.

    Also I think that if Reid and the rest of the front office had realized that T.O. was a big ego guy that needed his ego stroked to be happy, and they had appeased him a bit more that the Eagles would have won at least one superbowl under Reid, because after T.O. left McNabb wasn't given solid WR until he was on the down slope of his career, and the defense had started to fall apart.
  • I agree with most of what you type here but not exactly with the reasoning. I don't think the influx of free agents in 2011 was mainly because of the bad drafting (not stating the drafting wasn't bad), I think it was because the Eagles badly misjudged the talent they already had on the roster and thought these signings would push them closer to the top. They thought Asomugha would be an upgrade over Samuel (there was no way they were going to continue paying both guys over 10 million per season), Jenkins over Bunkley, Babin was finally going to be the help that Cole needed to take double teams off him, Brown was going to be that big back that complimented McCoy. Better drafting obviously would have helped avoid some of these signings but I think the Eagles truly felt they were a touchdown (instead of a Vick pick) away from being an elite team in 2010 and the way that free agency fell in 2011 (and the money they had) worked out perfectly for them to "upgrade" at many positions. Unfortunately we all know how that decision along with a few others (throwing a ridiculous contract out to a fading Mike Vick just one of them) worked out for them.
  • I agree that the team thought they were a TD away from getting over the hump so to speak but look at the draft history.

    2011 Watkins and Jarrett were busts.
    2010 Graham has so far been a bust and Allen is a huge appointment.
    2009 We had no 3rd or 4th round picks
    2008 and 2007 We had no 1st round picks and only 1 of the 4 2nd round picks in those two years actually panned out.
    Not to mention the 3rd round hasn't netted us a decent player since Westbrook back in 2002!

    All those years without top talent being brought in is why Cole never got a complement on the opposite end. It's why they didn't have an answer when Samuel got too expensive. It's why we've struggled to find a decent replacement for Dawkins. It's why our LBs have been a joke, we have no depth along the offensive line, and why we didn't have a solid player developing behind McNabb to the clear heir apparent.

    Reid set his team up for success early on but failed to properly plan for the future so as his stars aged and moved on he almost never had a replacement (McCoy being the obvious exception).
  • Again...I didn't state that they didn't draft poorly. Just that it wasn't reason one for the free agent frenzy of 2011. The Eagles went over the top that year because of the availabilty of talent and where they thought they were. I will address your disappointment with the Eagles drafting over the has for the most point been disappointing and part if it seems to be the Eagles looking for their "off the wall" picks or diamonds in the rough...players like Bryan Smith and Daniel Teo N'sheim. The picks in 2011 were extremely hard to take being that they obviously reached for positions of need in the first 3 rounds. Watkins was their pick and Reid hinted that the Eagles had him targeted and were extremely happy he was there (he even stated they wouldn't have picked Amukamara if he would have fallen to the Eagles while insisting that Watkins was their guy all along). Even though he was a reach I don't think it was a horrible pick at the time. A reach, yes...a bad pick, if he doesn't turn it around with the new coaching staff this year yes it will of their head scratchers...I don't think so. He was looked at by just about everybody as one of the best guards in the draft and I saw him in most mocks going in the 1st to 2nd rounds. Even the great Ray Didinger is surprised at how much of a non-factor Watkins has turned out to be. It seems more mental than physical with him but that doesn't make me feel all too confident that he will turn it around this year but being that I would hate for the Eagles to give up on a 1st round draft pick so quickly I am glad he is getting this last chance to see if the new coaches can at least make a competent backup out of him. Jacquann Jarrett and Curtis Marsh were just horrible picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds and still bother the hell out of me. Funny picks coming from a team that are constantly stating they always draft by best player available...nothing but BS. I get drafting for need that early as long as the talent is there but reaching for a safety in the 2nd round simply because that position is weak proves that is not what they are doing. Same with the Graham pick. I read that the Eagles had the feeling that they could get a good safety in round 2 in 2010 and that is why they went DE in the 1st. Graham wouldn't have been a head scratcher for me if they would have stood pat and drafted him where they were but the Eagles made it into one when they gave up two 3rd round picks along with their 1st to move up and draft Graham instaed of drafting the stud saftey (Thomas). This is the reason I want the Eagles to wait until round two to draft that QB they seem to be looking at. I want that top player at one of their many needs...corner, tackle...I'll even be happy with a DE who can be their future nose tackle if they deem Lotulelei healthy. Dion Jordan would fit the bill if the Eagles feel that Graham has had enough chances and they don't think he will ever develop into a factor rushing the QB. I'll trust them if they feel that Geno Smith is their future but as Manuel get's linked to the Eagles more and more daily I will hope he is the way they go.
  • I agree my point was just that HAD they not gone for their "project" players the talent would have been built up though the years so when the 2011 free agency frenzy came around we wouldn't have had to.

    In almost every draft year there were guys I wanted them to grab in the 1st and they could have but didn't:

    2012 - Dre Kirkpatrick, and Vontaze Burfict (I know he wasn't a 1st round projection but I was PRAYING they took a shot on him in the later rounds. He was honestly the #1 guy I wanted last year).
    2011 - Jimmy Smith (I also liked Akeem Ayers and Brooks Reed but I knew Andy would never take a LB in the 1st).
    2010 - Earl Thomas (was my #1 choice), Mike Lupati, and Dez Bryant
    2009 - I did want them to target Maclin but I also was hoping for Alex Mack, Michael Oher, and I thought Harvin would have been the better selection over Maclin to give us two return threats.
    2008 - Was infuriating because I wanted Jeff Otah who Carolina ended up grabbing with the pick we traded them, I also thought the should have traded up after trading down to get Kenny Phillips.
    2007 - Equally infuriating because I wanted them to grab either Joe Staley or Ben Grubbs to boost the o-line. Then they traded the 26th pick and Staley and Grubbs went 28th and 29th respectively.

    Obviously here I'm not mentioning guys that I wanted them to target who were selected before the Eagles picked but year after year they seemed to go in a direction that left a lot of people scratching their heads.

    As for the Watkins pick that year I didn't think was all that strong of a draft class when I came to the offensive line. After Mark Pouncey, Tyron Smith, and Nate Solder I didn't see anyone who really caught my eye. I think they were reaching because the needed linemen in a bad way. I mean Watkins was 27 when he was picked... most linemen have just hit their prime at that age and have been playing good football for several years in the NFL.

    Again I say if they had drafted well and gotten the value that teams are expected to get for their high round picks. The verdict is still out on Cox but he seems to be living up to expectations but other then him and maybe Maclin we haven't had a 1st round net us decent results in a long long time.

    Personally before 2011 free agency I wanted to Eagles to get back to drafting solid talent and developing it. Namely with offensive linemen to replace guys who weren't that good and guys who were aging, and the secondary.

    The point is that had the drafted more solid players then the free agents of 2011 wouldn't have looked so appealing and wouldn't have been deemed as necessary as they were at the time.
  • All I hear from the players is how excited they ARE and how frustrated they WERE before the meeting. They obviously can't learn the entire playbook in one night. The reason they weren't out going over plays is cause they didn't know the playbook. Don't be angry at Kelly be angry at the stupid ass cba they came up with. The eagles and other teams with coaching changes were the only teams allowed to meet with their coaches. The knew rules must be followed sadly
  • All I see are fan complaints, but somehow I'M the only being called a "whiner"....


    C'mon....Set an example for us "whiners".
  • You see what you want to see. Latinferno is nothing but a shining example of an optimist. Many of us had good things to type about free agency and are excited about the draft. No one knows what to expect this year and we all have hopes and concerns. We haven't seen this kind of change in 14 years but most fans want to go into it thinking it can be successful not being hollywoodeagle.
  • Got no beef with Latin. I haven't become HIS reason for coming on here.
  • You obviously come here to have your words seen while not giving anyone else's opinions a second thought...I think most of us have seen that.
  • People are saying you're whining because you're nit picking Chip Kelly for not being able to talk to his players all offseaon until this past Monday, that on Monday he seemingly didn't throw the book at everyone, some of his workouts are out of the box, and that you didn't hear any news about players getting together to work out.

    In your other post you gave praise to Al Davis as a man who thought outside the box and proved people wrong which is correct he did. And you're right that's why he's in the HOF. But then you jump on Kelly for guys doing hurdles?
  • That's pretty much it with flip. Praising so-so moves by the Raiders (that are trying to cover up bad moves by them in the recent past) while ripping Kelly and the Eagles for something beyond their control is way over the top. I'll also add though for me it is that flip ripped many of us during the season last year for being down on a team that was on it's way to a 4-12 season and had to win it's last 4 in 2011 to get to 8-8. Things sure have changed for flip now that Reid is out of town and Chip Kelly is here and the season hasn't even started yet.
  • I mean I get that flip didn't want Kelly as the head coach but just because he wasn't who you wanted you're gonna nit pick because Mathis said he doesn't know the whole plan yet.

    Go right ahead and be skeptical of Kelly I'm skeptical of him two he's gonna have to prove he's was the right choice. But get off his back he isn't going to turn this thing around over night. My guess it's going to take at least two seasons of struggles before the ship is righted and on the playoff path.
  • Exactly!
  • AL DAVIS endured more than the likes of me to get where he got. The man took on convention, national bias and even sued and BEAT the NFL.

    You aren't SERIOUSLY be comparing a rookie coach to a HOFer are you?

    I don't care so much about being called a whiner. God KNOWS I've been called FAR WORSE by people on this site. My friend says that "arguing with Birdflipper is apparently a Yardbarker rite of passage." If guys need to get their manhood badges by scoring imaginary points to earn electronic high-fives from each other, well, whatever floats your boat. Lord knows I've ran enough people permanently off the site. To be totally honest with you it's kind of flattering to be considered the top of the food chain around here.

    Thanks boys!

    BTW: Latinferno is a MAN because HE doesn't need to engage in a childish ritual to earn my approval.
  • I wasn't knocking Al Davis at all. I know his accomplishment and what he did for the league and the game. All I was saying is that MAYBE Kelly is thinking out side the box too. I did by no means say Kelly was Davis or compare the two. I merely pointed out that some of Kelly's approaches seem out of the box. Something YOU brought up as being the reason Al Davis had been so successful.

    As for all the electronic high fives, manhood badges, and top of the food chain talk idk what that's all about. I'm on here because I like to talk football, mainly about the Eagles.

    I just think it's a little two faced when you call posts "here's what there eagles are doing so wrong" when it's only about guys being eased into a new system, and "making moves like a boss" referring to cutting former 1st round picks who didn't pan out. You make it seem like doom and gloom for the Eagles and a clear path to the playoffs for the Raiders.

    Lets just call it what is is the Eagles are letting Kelly run their rebuild his way and the Raiders are removing their bad players, putting the past in their rear-view and rebuilding as well.
  • When did I say playoffs and Raiders in the same sentence?

    There's nothing "two-faced about saying "I like this" "I don't like that"? We USED to call that truth and straight talk.
  • It's just the way you seem to be giving the Raiders this huge vote of confidence for getting rid of problem players (which I again agree was the right move and also the Eagles have done too) as something monumental when in reality it's business as usual for a team trying to turn things around.

    I didn't say you used playoffs and Raiders in the same sentence I know you aren't that crazy to say that just like I wouldn't say that about the Eagles. It's the way you present it that makes it seem like you think the Raiders are somehow ahead of the Eagles. That's what I'm getting on your case about.

    I'll admit two-faced was a poor choice of words on my point. By all means voice what you do and don't like. That's what we are all here for. But don't make statements like "this is what the eagles are getting so wrong" when there is no proof that what Kelly is doing isn't working or won't work.

    If you simply said "I don't like that Mathis came out and said he doesn't know what the whole plan is" and here's why or "I don't get why Kelly has them doing hurdles" because of X, Y &Z fine then lets discuss it. But you come at it like the team is failing before the start.

    I get it you didn't want Kelly, you don't like him as the coach, you are skeptical and all that's fine. I'm actually more on your side on that then you'd think (although he is starting to grow on me). But the time to debate that move has passed. There's nothing more really to debate because the moves he has made have been smart so far and there's nothing you can point to and say "see he's an idiot he's going to ruin this team". The time for that debate will come again when the season starts, games are played, and can actually see how what he's been doing translates into the field.
  • Nobody is debating who the HC is or at this point should be. Even Kellyscott isn't debating it.

    To be clear the Raiders ARE ahead of the Eagles. That's a fact. The Raiders players even with scheme switch on BOTH sides of the ball, know (not just have an idea of) what their doing and what will be expected of them.

    Let me make it clearer. Coach Allen said through the media what we'd be running, so it's easy for players to read up on and practice principles or their respective systems. No plays were given away. No gameplans handed over. Just acknowledgement of a system.

    It's no secret that Chip Kelly has and most likely will run a Spread, but not locking it in...You've read it from the players mouths. They only have an idea. They are left to say things like "I'm ready for anything". It's an optimistic and willing statement, but it's not at all the same as preparation.

    Coach made sure his guys had homework. Kelly's guys were just sitting and waiting. It's a moot point now since "contact" is allowed now, but the truth is contact and communication are two different things.

  • Get off your high horse, flip. MY disagreeing with your posts has nothing to do with how you (or your "friend's") regard yourself on this website and ONLY to do with your extremely disagreeable posts lately (and some in the past frankly). You seem to hold yourself untouchable on're just another opinion to me and lately your opinions seem more based on biased feelings than facts. You told ME I'm acting like loopy hollywood in a different post and threaten me with blocking my posts. How is it it that I am acting as loopy as strongly disagreeing with your opinions? Seems you don't judge hollywoodeagle so well either. You want to see hollywood a closer likeness looks back at you in the mirror lately. Do what you need to do. I haven't been the one that has been overly berating in my reponses to you. Until I insinuated you were a blowhard I have kept these posts have hit me with many more personal shots. So go ahead and run from my opinions that don't agree with yours and the FACTS that you would rather ignore when I call you hypocritical and bring up how you came down on all us for doing more legitimate complaining then you are doing now. Do what you feel you need to do.
  • Of course my opinions are based on biased feelings, sweetie. (Is that better for your delicate emotions?) Being a fan is all about biased feelings. Factually the Eagles have proven incapable of winning the Super bowl thus far, but you stay a fan based on FEELINGS.

    And don't worry I always do what I feel I need to.
  • You don't have to worry about mt feelings, flip. Being that you have had tantrums on here and obviosly don't take too well to differing opinions I was worried about yours. Of course biased feelings come into it but when you go overboard with your biased feelings like MANY of us have been pointing out to you then sometimes your comments seem ridiculous...and that is where you stand right now.

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