Much ado about Geno

Posted April 05, 2013

Ok so flip says we don't talk about the Eagles as of late so I'm starting this thread. 

I know the idea of Geno Smith being brought to the Eagles has been talked TO DEATH by pretty much everyone so hopefully I don't catch to much flak for bringing it back up. 

I'm all for the Eagles drafting Smith actually, as long as Kelly truly believes that this guy is going to his long term answer at the QB position. We all know this is a QB driven league and teams start foaming at the mouth when a prospect comes along with huge upside. Just look at what Washington gave up last year to aquire RGIII. 

However, the years draft is night and day different from last year. This year has a feeling of being built more on hype then sure talent like 2012s class, and I think teams are starting to take notice. So lets go through the teams in draft order. 

The Chiefs gave up a high second round pick to get Alex Smith. Jags have shown commitment to Gabbert. The Raiders got Flynn and have Pryor both of whom they seem to be high on. Eagles have stocked piled 5 QBs. Lions are set with Stafford. Browns still have Weeden and Jason Campbell. Cards have acquired strong arm Carson Palmer as well as brought in Drew Stanton. Bill are taking a chance on Kolb. The J E T S  Jets Jets Jets are a M  E  S  S  Mess Mess Mess at QB but are still on the hook for a lot of money owed to Sanchez, they brought in Garrard, and still have McElroy and Tebow (who i'm assuming they are trying to trade). Titans like Locker and brought in Fitzpatrick after Buffalo let him go. Chargers have Rivers who while inconsistent at times still has a lot left in him if they put the pieces around him. The Fins have Tannehill who the verdict is still out on. Bucs have Freeman. Then is goes Newton, Brees, Bradford, Rothlessburger, Romo, Eli, Cutler, Dalton, Bradford (again), Ponder, Luck, Ponder (again), Rodgers, Schaub/Yates, Peyton, Ryan, Kaepernick, and Flacco.

My point in listing all those team is to show that virtually ever team either has THEIR guy, a guy they are high on, a guy they are comfortable with, or a guy they feel fills the need. Now a lot of "experts" expect Geno to be taken in the top 10 but they also seem to think that he is more like late first round talent. The problem is that there aren't teams between picks 20-32 that have that glaring need at QB (except maybe the Vikings).

So who could I see going after him? The Jags, Raiders, Eagles, Browns, Bills, Jets, and Vikings. They are all teams that have that guy they think will work for now if need be or a guy they are just comfortable with. Now I'm not a mind reader so Flip don't eat my lunch here, some of these teams (like the Raiders) may feel that they have their guy and he just needs some development. 

Either way this weak class mixed with needy teams grabbing guys who have started before or are thought to be guys who could start tells me that no one is all that high on Geno Smith. If they were I doubt they'd be bringing on guys who for all intensive purposes expect to start day one. If they were planning on drafting a Smith high in the first obviously he would then be the supposed day one starter. 

Back to the Eagles. If they do think he's their guy I think a perfect storm has been created for them to pass on him at 4. If they could make a move for him later in the 1st by trading up OR even letting it ride and watching him fall to them in the 2nd. Its a stretch and I think I heard that if it happens this would be the first draft since 2006 that a QB wasn't drafted in the 1st round.

I think teams are becoming more and more weary though when it comes to QBs and trying to make sure they draft smarter. Guys like Vince Young, JaMarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, Matt Leinart, Mark Sanchez, Tim Tebow, and Jimmy Clausen are making teams realize that guys can be over hyped and thus cause them to be over drafted. They are also realizing that good QBs like Kaepernick, Dalton, and Wilson can be found outside of the 1st. 

I don't think the Eagles, or any team for that matter NEEDS to reach on Geno Smith to get him, and if some other team does and the Eagles don't get him they still have options to get us though the next few seasons until they are able to find a guy who they either love or is worth the pick. 

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  • It's funny that you bring up seeing how the 1st round pans out before moving on Smith because I was starting to wonder myself if this could happen with all the QB moves lately. A few weeks ago I figured Smith wouldn't make it out of the top 10 with the Eagles, the Cardinals and the Bills all needing QBs but with the Bills and the Cards making moves on probable starters why couldn't it happen? I'm all for the Eagles filling a need with Milliner, Fisher or someone who is looked on as a top lock and making a move for their QB in the late 1st via trade up or simply seeing who falls to them at 2 (if someone is there that they like). Bring the draft on!
  • EXACTLY! With the 4th overall pick we NEED to make sure we get a top tier, top talent, starting caliber, NFL ready, (add whatever other descriptive term you want)type of guy.

    I'm not saying Smith can't be a good or even a great QB. But there's questions of if he is really as good as he looks on paper or if he was a product of West Virginia's offensive system. I tend to think it's a bit of both.

    He has without a doubt a lot of upside, but why take the risk at #4 when there are guys who are more NFL ready. With so many guys who are supposed to be not only ready to play but to make an immediate impact why pass on them for a question mark. Especially when there doesn't seem to be any team out there with a sense of urgency that Geno needs to go top 10.

    I say pass at 4, let him fall, see where he falls and evaluate how much they like him as he falls. Once he gets to a spot he's worth and if they think he's the guy the pull the trigger move up and get him. And if he say falls to the Bills and they grab him then fine. There'll be QB's in the 2nd, 3rd, and more importantly NEXT YEAR! Getting the QB of the future should be a well thought out process. It's a waiting game where you keep a guy on the roster that you're comfortable with while you keep searching until you absolutely fall in love with a player and go get him. I just don't get that sense right now from any team let alone the Eagles when it comes to Geno.
  • When you're picking in the top 5. That pick needs to be an immediate impact player. In fact every pick the Eagles make needs to be immediate impact. No more of these stupid ass projects.

    To me, Geno Smith never fit that bill. I saw him in the Pinstripe Bowl and was NOT impressed. Yea he put up video game numbers in the first few games this year, but then when he started facing real defenses he fell off considerably. If he can't muster up any kind of encouraging numbers against the best that the college ranks have to offer, do you really trust him going against the pro defenses?

    I don't want another McNabb. In other words, I'd be willing to put up with 1-2 years of crap as opposed to 8 years of mediocre, or good but never good enough. We need people that have IT.
  • The only thing you need to think about though is that although YOU are willing to put up with 1 or 2 years of crap to wait for your QB the man who has the highest power in the decision of the future QB for the Eagles probably won't be willing to do that. Chip Kelly isn't going to want to flounder for 2 years while finding his guy. Maybe he takes a shot on a Matt Scott this year instead of a Smith or a Manuel earlier or maybe he doesn't draft a QB at all. If that is the case he better hope that at least one of the QBs that fit his system next year continue to state their case as being a franchise QB and the Eagles better go all in with going after him in the 2014 draft no matter what it takes...unless one of the 5 already here show he can be the guy and I don't think many of us see that happening.
  • Seattle didn't flounder really for two seasons. They focused their efforts on getting other talented guys to rebuild the rest of the team. They didn't force the QB issue, they brought guys in who they liked and thought could compete, and they eventually found Wilson. So there's something to be said for being patient.

    Look historically at teams who reached on QBs. Jamarcus in Oakland (sorry flip), Sanchez in NY, Leinart in AZ, Clausen in Carolina. Teams that do their homework, wait, and don't buy into the hype usually have the most success.
  • The Rams and Vikings have two mid-late first round picks. Star Lotulelei is now going around 20th in mock drafts. I'd like to see us make a trade with one of these teams to get their first round picks and draft Star and a DB. I really like Elam out of Florida.
  • The fact that the Viks have two late first rounders is why I could see them taking a shot on Geno late. The Rams have Bradford and I don't see Jeff Fisher grabbing another QB in the first. There's too much good talent in this draft for his team to pass up on a position he already has a starter at. I expect the Rams to stock up on talent to try and keep up with San Fran and Seattle.
  • My guess is a team that just got a qb but an old one would want to have their qb for the future. The cards brought in Palmer but how much does he have left? The bills can't be sold on kolb I just can't believe that so I would expect them to draft geno if he falls to them but I no longer think they would trade up. I could also see the jets continuing their mess n draft smith. I highly doubt he falls to the second but if he does somehow I wouldn't be angry if we pick him. I would still rather have Eric Reid to pair with Phillips but we could get Tony Jefferson late in the draft. My first pick would be star even at 4. We r in desperate need of a de for the 3-4 n star will be a monster his hear condition cleared up n was just from dehydration like expected so no worries there. If we can trade back a couple spots I would but not to 15 or 20 it's too risky. Better to just trade back a couple n still know u can get the guy u want.
  • This may be confusing at first, but bear with me.

    I don't want the Eagles to draft him, BUT if they do I think THEY SHOULD START HIM before season's end. Here's why:

    1) You don't spend a 1st round pick (a top 5 at that) for guy who isn't going to contribute in his first year.
    2) I've said that the Offense doesn't have a rally guy. Smith may not be a natural rally guy, but him being brought in, in round 1 sends a signal to the rest of the roster that the franchise expects them to follow him. You just can't get that with a later round pick (See: Foles, Kolb).
    3) Like my Raiders the Eagles are turning a page. Unless Vick or Foles play lights out ball, or a playoff berth is at stake; this is the time to turn that page. As long as Kelly is playing with Reid QB's 1 and 2, this franchise will continue to carry Reid in the DNA of any of it's future successes. For Kelly to claim it as all his, he'll need his guy on deck.
  • That's why I was saying pass on him at 4 and let him fall. I saw a mock draft today that had the eagles taking Fisher at 4 and then trading up to 25 later to take Geno. I'd be so much more comfortable doing something like that.
  • Just got finished watching path to the draft and in one segment they had the Eagles drafting three different players in less than one minute. Not one of those players was Geno Smith. This draft is screaming trade down and get more picks, because there is still good value in the middle of the first round.
  • I don't think they should trade down. The talent at the top of the draft is pretty solid and the Eagles have several holes, one of them would be filled with a guy selected at 4.
  • I saw that segment also, Eazy. I think it may have been Fisher, Lotulelei and then they agreed on Lane Johnson. I guess you couldn't argue with any of the picks...all seem like they will be solid pros that fit Eagle needs and from what they say Johnson's athleticism fits Kelly's fast tempo system. I also read that all three projected top tackles have very good potential to be pro bowl players. With the Eagles reported interest in tackles in the off-season added to the talent in the top end of the draft I wouldn't be surprised to see them go tackle in the first.
  • I would welcome them taking a tackle in this years draft, or Warmack. I wanted them to target offensive linemen in this draft but I also wanted them to bring in at least on guy from free agency. I know some of the guys still available may have injury issues but the Eagles have depth issues. So even if they bring in someone who doesn't start at least they have some insurance behind their starters.
  • It seems Eric Winston is fine with waiting things out even if it means waiting until after the draft. I think most guys like him will be looking for a starting gig and with the Eagles seemingly reluctant to go there with a possible long term deal it gives me the feel that they will be drafting tackle early...I would be fine with Warmack also...I just hope it's not at 4.
  • I'd like Warmack at 4 over Geno Smith. I think these guys (offensive linemen) waiting in free agency for long term deals are only hurting their cause. This draft has a lot of talent along the o-line.

    Teams are gonna draft and be even less likely to hand out long term deals regardless of if they draft their guy or not. If a team was high enough on someone like Winston or
    Andre Smith they would have already offered them a deal they wouldn't have turned down.

    That being said I'd still like the Eagles to target those two and Bryant McKinnie after the draft, because regardless of if they take a top o-linemen or not they still need help with regard to depth.
  • Makes sense.
  • I'd love to see it happen. The Eagles drop off has been huge where depth is concerned along the offensive line.

    Update: April 07, 2013
    bnugent, this reply on the Eagles QB situation (and the Seahawks) is being added here because yardbarker's silly commenting policy is telling me I can't reply to my own comment while trying to reply to yours...sorry!

    First of all my comment was an update of a post where I agreed with GG but I did state that is why I would prefer the Eagles target Manuel in the 2nd if they are targeting a QB (my update deleted my original post...freakin' yardbarker). Secondly, the Seahawks took a couple chances on QBs to get there, didn't they? The guy the Raiders just got (Flynn) was given a decent contract to be that guy but a surprising 3rd round rookie (by many or he wouldn't have made it to the 3rd round) took hold of the starter's job and didn't let go. The talk was that Andy Reid liked Wilson a lot and wanted to target him in the 3rd even though the rest of the brass liked Foles (I even heard a report that the Eagles were actually doing that). We all know what happened, the Seahawks drafted Wilson 12 picks ahead of the Eagles and now the Eagles have a QB who looked okay and looked like he was improving (and doesn't fit the new system but that is besides the point) instead of a guy who looks like he definitely could be a franchise QB and seems like he could run Kelly's system extremely well. Would you have had a problem with the Eagles right now if they would have used the Vinny Curry pick to draft Wilson instead of picking Curry? Didn't think so. The 49ers drafted who most analysts thought would be a stud when they drafted Smith #1 overall but it took who some thought was a reach in the 2nd round of the 2011 draft in Kaepernick until they made it back to the Super Bowl. I get that taking Manuel may not be what most people want the Eagles to do (and even Smith in the 1st and for the most part I am with you on that...I would truly prefer they not do that) but just waiting until next year or the year after doesn't guarantee a fix either. The man they put all their eggs in the basket for may be a bust no matter where they draft him or what the analysts think of him. The Eagles won't find their QB by waiting for him...sometimes chances have to be taken and sometimes it takes more than one chance.
  • Yea yardbarker has a TON of glitches in their forums and some design flaws. Like why is the button to flag a post placed in the center of the reply and like button. I've been the victim of hitting the flag when i didn't mean to on a number of occasions and there's no way to retract it if you do press it by accident. The need to place that one all the way on the right edge of the post.

    I'm not saying the Eagles should just sit around and not do their hw on guys, and I do like the idea of getting EJ in the 2nd or someone else later. I'm all for them pulling the trigger on a guy they are high on and if that means spending a 2nd for a guy valued at 3rd so we don't miss the next Russel Wilson then by all means go for it.

    My main issue is that I don't want them taking Geno Smith at 4. Honestly I don't care how high they are on him. The consensus around the league seems to be that this guy isn't worth a top ten pick. If that's true then there is a GREAT chance that'll he drop to the mid to late 1st round. If the Eagles want him I'd be much more comfortable trading back into the 1st and taking him 20-32. I DO NOT want to take him 4 and I DO NOT want to trade down to get him.

    As for the Seahawks they did take some chances but it was more like low risk high reward. Flynn was a guy a lot of people we high on coming out of Green Bay. He had that phenomenal game against the Lions and people were looking at him like they looked at Kolb after his early success in Philly. The deal he got from Seattle was 3 years 10 million guaranteed, and could become as much as 26 million. That's under 4 mill a year for a guy who was thought to have a lot of upside. Now I don't know if they had to give him all of that 10 million or if the Raiders are picking up some of that tab when they traded for him. Either way it was a pretty conservative contract.

    That deal also got done days after the Skin's traded up to the #2 pick to lock up RG3, so the QB market was drying up. What they did was smart. They had an answer for QB going into the draft so that when guys like Weeden and Tannehill started coming off the board they weren't forced to jump up and grab someone. And that's what it looks like the Eagles are doing this year. I'm not saying it'll result in them finding a gem like Wilson late in the draft but having Vick doesn't force their hand to HAVE to take a guy early.
  • Having Vick scares the hell out of me and I do think they SHOULD pull the trigger early but at 4 I would have some issue with it.
  • He scares me also. I was one of the people who said we should cut ties with him right after the season ended. Please don't by any means think I'm giving Vick my vote of confidence. But the QB market is dry, the draft class is weak with signal callers, and it's yet to been seen if Foles is the answer. With all those things in mind having Vick on the roster makes me a little more comfortable.

    I hope they do find a guy they like this year in the draft, preferably in a later round. I also hope that Kelly stays true to his work that there's open QB competition.

    The truth is it might take a few season for the Eagles to find their guy and we need someone in the mean time. Right now Vick seems to be the best of a bad situation. It would seem that his skills will translate nicely into Kelly's system so it could work for a season or two.

    The fact is the future for the QB market doesn't look to be getting any brighter. If this draft class really doesn't have any QBs that can cut it the 2014 free agent market is going to be barren once again. The only big name is Matt Ryan and the Falcons aren't gonna let him walk.

    We are going to have to find a QB through the draft. I just want it to be the right guy at the right pick so we aren't overpaying for a guy just so we can have a QB. If that means waiting until next years draft or the following then so be it. Rebuilding is about patience. I'd rather be grabbing up some of these top talented offensive linemen and defensive players so that when we have to rely on a guy like Vick we have at least have a solid line protecting him and a monster defense that other teams have to get past.
  • As we have seen with Vick, being able to run and having a strong arm (and being tough for that matter) hasn't given him long term success as a QB in the NFL and at 32 I don't see it getting any better. Kelly said he also needs a smart signal caller that can read defenses quickly, doesn't take sacks and doesn't turn the ball over. I don't think of Mike Vick at all when I see these needs.
  • A Tackle in the first wouldn't be all that much of a suprise with Peters and Herremans returning from injury. I know flip wants to over play Kelly's "exoneration" of Mick Vick's play last season (even though he threw 4 picks week one verses Browns with nearly all of his horses), he does make a valid point about the line needing an upgrade (even is flip doesn't realize he made the point). The could use an offensive tackle. They could draft one of the two if they are available, move them to RT, move Herremans back to LG, and Mathis to RG. They would at least have a tackle of the future, but if Mike Vick does become the starter it could be troublesome to have a rookie guarding his blind side. Especially with his penchant for holding the ball too long, his knack for fumbling, and consistency with getting injured.
  • I've been typing this scenario for months. Fisher (or Milliner) is the guy I've been the highest on for weeks. Strengthens two spots in my eyes.
  • At 4 I gotta go with Fisher... IF he is even still there. Reports have him being the guy teams are higher on when they compare him and Joeckel. So if he's there we should grab him. If not (I posted a different thread about this) I say we trade back. There's a ton of guys who can make an impact day one trading back we'll still be able to grab one AND get some extra picks.
  • I agree with you and GTD. I'm okay with Miliner, Fisher, or Lucke, but if they aren't there I would be fine with trading down and acquiring more picks.
  • I don't either which is why I don't think he'll last much longer with the Eagles. I think Kelly is keeping him because there aren't many options and he doesn't know how the draft is going to shake out. I also tend to believe Kelly is going to have true open QB competition because I don't get the sense that he's giving these players the impression that they are guaranteed a starting spot. He doesn't owe these guys anything and I think he's made it clear that he's going to go with guys that he feels fits his system and what he wants to do regardless of how much a certain player is paid or what their status was on the team last season.
  • While it's true that he doesn't owe anybody anything, I don't buy the idea that he's REALLY going to have an honest to god QB competition between 3-5 QB's. The math just doesn't support.

    I mean MATH literally.

    Even if Kelly whittles it down to only 3 competing QB's and squeezes in 600 snaps per practice, it's still 200 snaps for EACH QB. 33% of the time the cadence, reads and deliveries will be different from the other 66.66%

    That is NOT how you develop a rhythm. Rhythm comes from repetition. Repetition means doing the same thing the same way repeatedly. It does not mean constantly varying the way the Center snaps the ball, changing the QB's cadence, how pre-snap defenses are read and, varying the timing and placement on ball delivery. Done this way even if Kelly selects a QB, that will work to throw off the rest of the Offense. The concept of trying this with 4 or 5 QB's is just not mathematically feasible without crippling the Offense (who again is getting a late start.)

    Somebody is going to have to tell Kelly to trim it down EARLY to 2 guys TOPS. At which point folk's like EZ and GTD will feel they've been lied to, since Nick Foles doesn't fit the system.

  • I have stated that I would like to see how Foles would work in Kelly's system and have stated that he should get a shot but I have typed just as recently as hours ago that I don't think he will fit into what Kelly wants to do and have stated earlier that I don't feel he will get a fair shot. If it wasn't about using a player that fits into Kelly's system Michael Vick wouldn't be an Eagle right now. Every QB that Kelly brought in himself has some mobility, most QBs he has been tied to in the draft and that the Eagles have interviewed have at least some mobility...the 2 on the team that don't were already on the roster when Kelly was coincidence at all. If I thought Foles could work in this system and would get a fair shot as the starter I wouldn't be so "vocal" about the Eagles going after A QB in this year's draft.
  • I think it's Vick unless he's hurt in the preseason. I don't think it matters though because I don't see him here in 2014, so we could be doing this again at the position next year unless they draft someone this year or next.
  • Right now it all depends on if they draft a guy this year. Vick is going to be trying to show he can still play (I doubt it'll happen), but if he does he won't be looking for another one year contract. So if we don't draft a guy this draft we're gonna have to next year.
  • I think right now its Vick, Foles and Dixon who are the actual guys that are gonna be tried out. Edwards is there and that other guy from where ever are on the roster yes but lets be honest.

    The way I see it Shaking out is Vick is the penciled in starter. Foles is going to be shopped at the draft and if he isn't moved Kelly will try him out.

    I think they are gonna take a QB in the draft who knows who and were and I think that guy is going to be his #2. So if Foles is traded and Player X is drafted that leaves Dixon as the 3rd guy. Dixon and Kelly have history and Kelly sees it as a safe low risk move having him in Philly. Maybe he even brought him in to help the other QBs get a better grasp of how he likes the position played.

    I expect camp to be a competition between Vick and player X with Dixon there trying to prove he's better then whoever doesn't get the starting gig.
  • I'm just about ready to write off 2013 and just wait for 2014.
  • Lol that's exactly why I'm not so worried about hearing if Kelly is getting his plan to the players. I'm gonna watch the Eagles this year obviously but I'm not expecting big things. I'm gonna start to look for bright spots on the defense to get excited about in the future.
  • Just curious if your so willing to write off the 2013 season then why do you want Vick to be the Eagles starter so badly? Don't give me the "it's what Chip Kelly wants" response especially after you wrongfully accused me of wanting a particular quarterback. Writing off the season for a 30 something year old quarterback just seems stupid. I mean if giving up the season would be the call then it would be better to play a younger guy and let him develop.
  • I'm not writing off the season because of the QB I'm saying this is a rebuilding year. I don't want Vick but I don't see a better option. Foles may prove himself, I think Kelly is going to be searching for "his guy" and that guy might not come around till next season.

    With that in mind i think Vick is the closest thing available right now to what Kelly is looking for. And I think he wants everyone else on the roster to get used to playing with a guy like that this year so when he does find his guy that guy will fit right in.
  • I was actually referring to Raider75.
  • Here's the answer to your question:

    "I'm not writing off the season because of the QB I'm saying this is a rebuilding year. I don't want Vick but I don't see a better option."

    " I think Kelly is going to be searching for "his guy" and that guy might not come around till next season."

    That's as plain as anyone can state it. Perhaps since it wasn't originally said by ME, you can accept it.

    I keep saying is the "competition" is a sham, because there are better pure passers out there, but they'd have cost the Eagles more than they were willing to part with. SO, Kelly is just biding time in 2013.

    I flat out don't think Foles will be a decent fit for even a modified version of the Spread, and I don't see the point in mincing words about it, or falling back on "we'll see" in place of a well reasoned point of view.

    While I could turn out to be wrong, I cast my lot and back my call. I don't hold on to it for FEAR of being wrong, and I don't back down UNTIL I'm proven wrong.
  • I think the Eagles are thin upfront after letting go of Jenkins and Patterson. I could see them plugging that hole with a massive DT. That would take a below average position and make us strong on the d-line. I think the Eagles could move up with that second pick but they have plenty of spots to fill other than QB. They really are in a no lose situation they just have to make good choices.
  • Why is everyone ready to move on from Foles?. I understand moving on from Vick. Dennis Dixon was never anyone, but so many things have happened that makes me feel Foles has a chance
  • For me it's mostly the system. I don't think he's a bad QB I just don't think Kelly thinks Foles can run his offense, that's why I think they'll trade him on draft day.
  • This is what's funny. People who don't think Kelly's system will succeed in the NFL on this site are the same people absolutely believe he will choose Mike Vick as his quarterback regardless of how he plays in practice and in the preseason. Now a guy who is considered a genius by many, giving tips to the Patriots (who seem to be at least in the AFC Championship game every year) with possibly the slowest starting quarterback in football, CAN'T CREATE AN OFFENSE AROUND NICK FOLES!?! Sorry but you seem like an idiot. You say his offense wont work in the NFL, but you think he's too stupid not to change it around to fit in the NFL? He can give OTHER TEAMS TIPS ON HOW TO RUN HIS OFFENSE WITHOUT A MOBILE QUARTERBACK, BUT HE CAN'T USE THOSE TIPS HIMSELF????? Yeah it's a definitely a comprehension problem. Now I'm not telling you Mike Vick WONT be the guy, nor am I telling you that Mike Vick isn't his preferred choice. What I am telling you is Chip Kelly will make his choice based on performance as he has stated. I am certain that if Mike Vick plays like he has in the past two preseasons (or lack of play due to injury) he CERTAINLY WONT BE THE GUY.
  • Kelly's system WON'T succeed in the NFL, which is why he'll alter it. He (and Shurmur) have already said that much.

    But "create an offense around Nick Foles"? Seriously? late last week (after the meet and greet) Foles is annoyed with the perception that he can't run Kelly's system, and last night Kelly himself is lauding Vick's skills and exonerating him for last year. Yet somehow you think that that spells creating a system around Nick Foles?

    Why on Earth would he create an offense around an average QB?
  • "Why on Earth would he create an offense around an average QB?" That's a silly question for you to ask considering you think he is certain to create an offense for an injury prone sub par QB.
  • He ISN'T creating an offense for Vick. He doesn't have to. Vick can already run a variation of Kelly's Spread. No need to change a thing for Vick.
  • Are you serious? Chip Kelly's READ option requires a quarterback to be able to READ the defense and make quick decisions. The weakest points of Vick's game is READing a defense and making quick decisions. He will most certainly have to adjust his system to fit Vick. Vick is also near useless going to his right. He will have to adjust his offense accordingly. mike Vick doesn't fit this offense like a glove at all. In fact it may take Vick some time to figure it out period considering how long it took him to figure out Reid's offense plus his own self admission of his poor study skills. It's going to take a ton of work to make this work with Vick.
  • The reason I think Vick WILL be the guy isn't based off his what he did last year, or his abilities, or whatever. I think it's simply that Chip Kelly wants HIS quarterback for HIS future.

    To me that mean's he's going to go with the guy who's go the most starting experience, especially when it comes to an uptempo style of play, and then he's going to draft someone. EJ Manuel, Geno Smith, Tyler Wilson, Ryan Nassib, possibly even a guy like Matt Scott? Whoever it is will then sit behind Vick this year, maybe next, and Kelly will groom him to take over.

    Now I'm not saying Kelly CAN'T devise and offence that Foles could run or even that Foles can't learn to run it. I just think the Kelly already has an idea in his head about the exact type of guy he wants and I think he wants to find him himself. To me Kelly just sees Vick as the best option to run the offense he wants until he gets that guy.
  • See this is what I believe. Chip Kelly like Belicheat is a football coach. He's going to do whatever it takes to win football games. Winning is more important that style of play. Chip Kelly's offense is about tempo, and making sound decisions with the football. Fist off a player doesn't need to be fast to run an uptempo offense. He just needs to get the offense out of the huddle and quickly calling plays. Neither being uptempo nor making sound decisions with the football are strengths of Mike Vick. Just sayin.
  • I'm not saying those are Vicks strengths. I'm just saying for a season (maybe even half a season) Kelly might be more comfortable with the guy who's got the most starting experience.

    Now I was all for getting Vick out of Philly, and I still am. Just now I want to see a heir apparent first. I think Kelly will draft that guy this year (2nd round would be my guess/hope). Who knows Chip might want to keep whoever he drafts and Foles.
  • Still don't get why people think this isn't a competition. Chip Kelly can do whatever he wants. He can name Vick the starter yesterday if he wanted to. He can name Foles, Dixon, or one of the other guys. The point is Kelly doesn't need to lie about it. If Vick, Foles, or any of these guys were his main choice (though he's already said BOTH quarterbacks are why he came) he could name them the starter and be done with it. He hasn't for a reason and that reason isn't "coach speak." It's because the man generally wants to see competition. As Chip Kelly stated already he's an equal opportunity scorer. At this point NONE of the choices on the roster would surprise me at quarterback.
  • I think he want to see competition too, and I'm hoping he gives Foles the shot if he's here. It's not me being down on Foles at all I think he's got a lot of potential and could be a good QB in this league. It has nothing to do with if I think he can run Kelly's system or if Kelly can tailor a system to him.

    I think he hasn't named a starter because that would mean he's tying himself to one guy and for a rookie coach that's just not smart. What I think will happen is Foles will be shopped at the draft, I think Kelly will draft another QB, and I think that he'll go into camp with whoever he has on the roster. In camp he'll evaluate everyone and go from there. That's just my gut.

    That being said, from everything I read and hear I THINK right now Kelly is leaning more towards Vick. Whether its right or wrong, if I like it or not, that's just my take on the situation.
  • From what I gather I don't think he's leaning to Vick rather he's hoping to be the guy to bring out this untapped potential in Vick. He's not the first coach to make that mistake. Still I think Kelly is smart enough to see if it isn't working and if Vick struggles and the other guys out perform him one of them will get the job over him.
  • I really dont see him as being overly excited about any QB yet which leads me to think he's biding his time till he finds his QB.

    He says vick can still play, that foles is a good player, open competiton, best man for the job, yadda, yadda, yadda... all that leads me to believe is that he hasn't found "mr. right" he's just found a couple "mr. right nows"
  • I would agree with that, but sometimes Mr. Right can just fall into your lap. I don't know who that is yet. Anyone of these quarterbacks could be that guy. I'm sure Dick Vermeil didn't initially plan for Kurt Warner to be his guy. In fact I know he didn't plan on it, but I'm pretty sure he's happy about how it turned out.
  • I completely agree. Pete Carroll didn't expect Russell Wilson to become his starter, at lease not right off the bat. But look how that turned out.
  • It won't matter if the eagles land Geno Smith in the draft or not. Neither Vick or Foles will be able to run the kind of offense Kelly ran at Oregon in the simply isn't happening. Your all dreaming if you think the eagles are gonna be able to run that offense against pro defenses and be as successful as Oregon was in college. Kelly will experience the same thing Spurrier did when he thought he was a pro coach and found out he couldn't cut it with the big boys.
  • I know you hope that is the case. You have no other choice but to hope that. We will see what happens.
  • I'm not hoping, I'm simply stating a fact.
  • Funny thing about facts. The tend to need something supporting them to make them facts. For instance, in this case you might point out actual games where Chip Kelly ran his offense against NFL defenses. Since there have yet to be such a game you're statements are merely opinions.

    That being said no one here, or anywhere for that matter has said that Chip Kelly is going to run the exact same offense that he did at Oregon. In FACT he's spoken about as a coach you have to adapt your playbook to what you have.

    Here have a read:

    Notice how when I said FACT I tied it up with a nice little article that has a quote from Kelly? So where are you getting your FACTS?
  • Opinion or not, anyone who thinks Kelly is gonna be able to run the number of plays per game that he consistently ran in Oregon is crazy. The closest thing to what Oregon did in the pros last year would be what Kapernick did in San Fransisco for what, like 10 regular season games. NFL DC's have a book on Kap now and he won't find it quite so easy this season. So if you want to call it an 'Opinion' that's fine. But there is NO WAY that the eagles and Kelly will be able to have the kind of success that Kelly had in Oregon, hell that's just common sense, forget opinion or fact. Vick is washed up Foles is no real threat running the ball and even if you luck out and get Geno Smith, draft picks are a crap shoot with absolutely no guarantees. So you stick to your opinion, your entitled to it and I'll stick to mine. There's no way the eagles will have the kind of success that Oregon had at the college level. The NFL is where the big boys play and no NFL defense is going to get scorched the way Kelly's offense scorched college defenses. And remember too that very few college players are even good enough to eventually sign an NFL contract so the competition is much easier to beat in college....unlike the studs in the NFL.
  • So First it's Kelly's Oregon offense won't work, now it's he can't run the number of plays he did last year. What's next? The thing is that NO ONE here is saying Kelly is running the exact offense he did last year NO EVEN KELLY! So you keep arguing that his college offense won't work in the NFL when he's already said good coaches adapt. He is going to ADAPT, that means EVOLVE his playbook, MAKE CHANGES, NOT RUN THE EXACT SAME THING. You're arguing a point no one is stating.

    Well Kaepernick started 10 games including the post season and went 7-3. What happens this year is yet to be seen, so again your opinion with nothing backing it up.

    But when you say that there's NO WAY that it'll work of NO WAY they can have success with it, you say nothing as to why. I'm all for a good argument but come to the table with something other then your own gut feeling.
  • Well you have to cut him a little slack, because its clear with the Giants getting a little older now they aren't as good as the used to be. Their former strength of the team was their defense, but now most of those lineman are washed up. He sees it coming so he's hoping for the best. For his best would mean the detriment to our team, but his team is not longer the best in the division.
  • You keep wanting exact facts and stats, sports are a crap shoot and not an exact science. What I'm saying is that Kelly is not going to be able to be successful in the NFL like he was at Oregon. That's my take on it, my opinion. If you disagree that's fine, we will see. As far as easy's comment, that's laughable because the Giants competed last season and will again this season. Some of you guys on here want to break everything down to an exact science with all your facts and figures and I prefer to keep sports where they belong, an outlet for entertainment. Facts and stats are fine in their proper place but not in order to drive some nit picking argument, especially when there are far more important things to talk about. What some of you need to do is lighten up and stop taking all this crap so damn seriously. Take a chill pill dude.
  • I'm chill trust me, but when I make a statement I usually give a reason why. I don't just going around saying this will or won't happen and not give a valid reason.

    All you've said is that the offense Kelly ran in Oregon won't work. My point is that 1. you don't give any reason why. It's not based off anything, and 2. Kelly isn't going to run that exact offense. So saying that the offense he ran last year isn't going to work is a moot point, because the offense he ran isn't going to be used.
  • But you'll have to admit he's going to try to run a fast paced up beat offense because that's what he knows. Not saying he's going to run the exact same offense because he won't be able to, which is precisely my point. I don't feel it will work in the NFL, the defenders are just too damn good. Peace out brother. Gotta go, it's gonna be right around 80 degrees in the Valley of the Sun and I'm going hiking. Like I said before, there's more to life than just talking sports.
  • Fast paced offenses do work in the NFL, the hurry up, the no huddle, two minute drill. They work they keep defenses from regrouping, making subs, and catching their breath. While no teams run it all game it works.

    I'm just asking me to give me an example of a fast paced up tempo offense not working.
  • Im offering real money. CASH> For the best Helen Keller Eagle dance. Let your kids do it. Like a walking dead zombie or something like that. Billie Jean combined with the walking dead. You know Thrillerish , blind and deaf and dumb if you like. It will be the best and funniest Eagle contest ever. Anyone in? $1,000 to best video on you tube "Eagle Helen Keller dance"

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