TELL ME WE'LL DO BETTER THAN 4-12 AGAIN.

Posted August 30, 2013

I'M not bummed that we lost our final preseason game to the Jets. I'm not bummed that the story of the night is the 3rd string rookie QB that beat us. I'm not even upset that we lost to a rookie 2 spots behind Mark Sanchez.

What has me gutted is that last night we looked like we were trying to win that game.

The Falcons went 0-4 this preseason using the games as a roster review and as a teaching tool, so those losses you brush aside. My other team the Raiders went 1-3 trying to win those games, but it's no secret that that house is under renovation and there is currently plastic sheeting covering the exposed back of that house right now. Those losses you can almost (almost) disregard.

Chip Kelly said prior to Game 1 that he'd be running pretty vanilla, Mike Vick said it would be vanilla, Howie Roseman said they wouldn't be running their offense and would be keeping things very simple. Instead, Kelly came out running a no-huddle, and even called an EARLY deep route for DJax in that game. That was a blatant strike at Belichik's jugular, and it was clear that Kelly wanted that game. Until it got out of hand.

In fact, it's been pretty clear that Kelly has wanted to win these games. (As he should've. Who wants to lose, right?) The thing is, we've had to play pretty tough to beat some pretty dysfunctional ball clubs recently. Even in February when I was more down on Chip Kelly, you couldn't have sold me on 4-12 again. Like I said recently, that level of 'Fail' was almost an accomplishment to begin with. To duplicate it would indicate that more than just the roster and coaching staff was at fault in recent years. Now if someone was to say 4-12 to me I'd be slow to argue.

32 Comments:
  • Kelly just seems like one of those coaches that is too good to finish below 8-8. It's going to be rare to see him get out-coached.
  • In college maybe, but the jury is still out on what he'll do in the pros. Far more college coaches fail in the NFL than succeed.
  • I agree with you G.R. I also sent you a message.
  • I'm not so sure. I think Kelly is the guy most likely to make life difficult for Kelly.

    The fast paced, multi-sub package philosophy he uses on offense, is going to wear down his defense. His statement about TOP only points out how big the gap he's now jumping, really is.
  • [not displayed: comment from locked account]
  • When I said we were trying to win I was speaking of how much the scheme looked like game day scheme versus 3 teams that were CLEARLY experimenting and evaluating when they played us (I think Jacksonville was trying to win).

    Again, what gets to me is how bad we looked trying to beat three really bad teams. Two of whom have dysfunction permeating not only roster and coaching but even their front office/business models.

    Getting beaten by multiple someones in that state of disarray speaks to something that as Eagles fans, we are all either collectively not seeing or perhaps willfully ignoring.

    In fact I'm going to give that last one some thought for a bit. Try to look at my team like it wasn't my team and take some honest stock.
  • I think the problemis a result of the multiple bad dealings by management with players over the years. EZ & GTD always discount it as the players were old and not worth it but that negative approach has left a distasteful mark in that lockeroom. And its like a virus it rears its head when the ZEagle body is weakened. I dont think the early season dealings with Vick and QB competition did anything to eleviate doubt about the owner and managements motives. The front office needs a new game plan not just a new coach.
  • If 4-12 gets us Tajh Boyd, would that be such a bad thing?
  • Yes.
  • Really? You'd be against getting a franchise QB?
  • Franchise like (some) people here were saying Tim Tebow was a few years ago? Franchise like people were saying that Geno Smith was a few months ago?

    Franchise for a run-first NFL team, who's coach runs a system demonstrably NOT suited to making young QB's into NFL caliber ones?

    Kelly is under the impression that he can run his system with ANY type of QB, or skill set. That's like saying that a diamond or a well shined piece of glass is equally as good. Even if you could ENSURE that a college athlete would end up Franchise material, why would you give it to a man who has thus far demonstrated an inability to appreciate it, and a system that de-emphasizes it?

    Stands to reason that they should spend the pick on a REAL Safety, or if the O-line has trouble inside (keep your eye on Herremanns, and I was never sold on Kelce), taking a blue-chip blocker to stabilize the Offense would make even more sense still.
  • A system that de-emphasizes it? Are you watching the same coach that I am? If anything, Chip Kelly is able to adapt to his players. Unfortunately he's stuck with a guy in Mike Vick who has never changed his game. That's the one thing I am going to criticize Chip for is starting Vick. I said it before and I'll say it again. You can't teach an old dog new tricks (pun intended).
  • Yes. DE-emphasizes.

    THIS is the coach you've been watchinghttp://www.yardbarker.com/forum/3/57/discussion/kelly_does_need_a_mobile_qb_fixed_version/14075900

    Year by year. I didn't coach these stats, he did. His QB's put up big numbers in college, but name ONE that was ready for the big time after he was done with them. Just ONE.
  • Sound like someone you know? ANDY!
  • Sounds very much UNLIKE Andy actually. The QB Reid developed is your favorite team's all-time best QB by every practical measure. In about a month he's coming back to your favorite team's stadium to be cheered by your fellow fans while having his jersey retired. Seems to me Reid got at least ONE, right.

    On the other other hand Kelly has an abysmal record of getting his collegiate QB's ready for the pros. (0/4 is the current mark.) Of all 5 QB's he went into camp with, the best among them was the "washed-up" guy with 10 years under his belt. The 4 YOUNG hotshot QB's, the guys he could mold, including a guy who played in this system under Kelly in college, half of them were cut and the other half is riding pine.

    Still after all that, your idea is to blow a top 5, top 3 pick on a guy who won't be developed properly because that isn't Chip Kelly's area of expertise.

    Look, you don't buy a ninja a Desert Eagle. It may be nice, it may be shiny, it may be lethal through a wall; but the ninja is an expert with a blade, so you get him something he can get the most out of.
  • Oh so you know the future now? Care to tell me the winning powerball numbers while you're at it? It's like talking to a wall with you man. No amount of logic will work on you. It doesn't matter if it's me, EZ, GTD, Spot, none of us can get through to you. You just aren't willing to give this guy a chance because of your foolish loyalty to Andy. HE'S GONE. This may be hard for you to accept but this is Philly we ain't the sensitive type. You need to swallow the truth, grin and bear it.
  • How r u making a case for Andy Reid not developing QBs and wanting a franchise guy? Does dmac ring a bell? He made detmer, aj feeley, mike McMahon, brought back garcie, made aj feeley AGAIN, revised Vick, and was the guy who brought us nick foles last year. I didn't even mention a couple qbs who came in and looked good for short periods of time. Reid was and may still be a qb genius. Only time will tell in kc. As for chip not needing a qb, that's what he said. He can make his system work with anyone. I was trying to get down there but security wouldn't let me past the front gate.
  • LOL!

    All good points there. It WAS Kelly who said he could make it work with anyone. He already has Matt Barkley if he chooses to start fresh next year. Heaven forbid we see 4-12 again, but if we do why not use the pick on someone he can get mileage out of?
  • Good lord GangGreen what ARE you talking about?

    You need to go back to my post up there and realize that I was talking about the 4 games that CHIP KELLY has coached so far. How'd the team look to YOU? Oh wait, you're probably want to roll out that old "They weren't rolling out their full package' line right? NEWSFLASH! NOBODY we played was either. Yet still we struggled.

    Yeah I kind of do know the future. In fact my accuracy since they signed Kelly has been downright creepy thus far. Am I pyschic? Nope. But football like reality follows real simple rules. To circumvent those rules (e.g. people can't fly, or breathe underwater) you have to be GOOD (like basejumpers and scuba divers), because if you suck you end up paying dearly for it (as a stain or drowned). Kelly did some silly things early on, and it was too easy to draw a line and see where it would end up by camp or until he named a starter.

    As far as your EZ logic line; isn't it weird how the "LOYAL" fan of "ONE TEAM" puts up Eagles bashing headline after Eagles bashing headline, since reality proved me right and him WRONG?
  • You aren't psychic and sure as hell haven't proven a damn thing. I have accepted the fact that this is a rebuilding project for top to bottom and will take time with a new coach and two new systems on both sides of the ball.

    Now riddle me this. Do you think this team would be where they are right now were it not for Reid's horrendous drafting record? The 2011 draft speaks for itself. The 1st and 2nd rounders in that class didn't even last 3 years. Not to mention the best players out of that class were a kicker (a pretty good one, but still a kicker) and a decent center.

    As putrid as the 2011 class was it's the 2010 class that really brings my piss to a boil. Brandon Graham over Earl Thomas. Yeah. I knew that was a bad pick before everyone else did. We wouldn't even have any secondary issues if we made the sensible pick and went with Thomas. Oh and here's another gem, Daniel Te'o Nesheim over Navarro Bowman and Geno Atkins in Round 3.

    Of course, I saved the best for last. 2007. The Eagles trade out of the first round with Dwayne Bowe still on the board and trade their 1st round pick to a mortal enemy in the Cowboys. With the 2nd round pick, they waste it on Kevin Kolb. Have a look who goes immediately after Kolb. It's none other than Eric Weddle. This guy has been one of the best safeties in the NFL since he's come in and he's been of the league's best kept secrets.
  • Gg don't u think the past drafts should show u that it's not always best to try for draft picks? Alot end up busts. Look at Ryan leaf tim couch hell Vick is a number 1 pick.
  • A valid point 20Dawk. Not every system is foolproof. It always boils down to who you've got calling the shots on personnel decisions. If you were to look at some of the most recent Super Bowl Champs then you will notice they all have one thing in common, all of them are so brilliantly run from a GM standpoint. I'm looking at teams like the Ravens, 49ers, Packers, Steelers, and yes the Giants (God I think I barfed a little saying that).

    I think Ozzie Newsome might be one of the most if not the most brilliant GMs in the NFL right now. Losing Ed Reed is going to hurt but getting Matt Elam in the 1st round was a very intelligent pick. Guys like him. They get it. Championship caliber squads more often than not are homegrown.
  • GG:
    You're right I didn't prove anything. All I did was say what what happen and CHIP KELLY proved me right.

    As far as where this team would be if Reid had drafted different: Duh. He did a bad job and was fired. End of story. However looking at THIS coach, THIS draft, THIS bunch of FA's, and THIS team, THIS year, so far I gotta say: It's not a good look, homey.

    You can wring your hands over Reid and while your at it Rhodes and even Ed Khayat for good measure, for as long as you wish, but I'm gonna deal with what's going on with the team TODAY.
  • Yo Flip. The fact that you think we shouldn't "waste" a high pick on a QB just because of Kelly being the Head Coach pretty much makes your opinions on football worthless. I think if you were to say that to any other Eagles fans they would laugh in your face. I know I would.

    This year isn't a good look? Well what do you call the last two years then genius? Riddle me that.
  • The Eagles lack funding & talent. They are banking on a miracle Vick season. At his age Im not banking on it but he will try very hard to keep them floating. Thatwas the formula they used with McNabb. Thats why Mcnabb wont make the HOF and has no rings to show for his effort. After this season the fans will question Lurie.
  • I think most of us already question Lurie's football acumen. I think this is why he hires GM's like Heckert, Reid and Roseman, and front office heads like Banner and Smolenski. There isn't sixty seconds of NFL playing time on all of those rosters COMBINED. And THAT is why I think they keep whiffing on talent, and establishment of a franchise identity.

    The franchise lacks anyone at the top who UNDERSTANDS the game from inside the helmet, as a balance to all the guys who are masters of ROI, RM, and P/E ratios. Charles Schwab and H&R Block have never won a single Super Bowl.

    And so far neither have we.
  • Are EZ and GTD on vacation together? I think Foles losing to Vick has crippled them. Its Ok fellas you can come back now.
  • Oh I'm sure they never left. Most likely rooting for the Eagles BEST QB to be injured so that they could jump in and call him "fragile".

    Since that didn't happen in the preseason, now they're likely waiting for him to throw 2 picks in a game we win, or lamenting him for not throwing 4 TD's in a game we lose. Regardless of what he does this season they CAN'T be caught rooting for him, because then it looks like they came around to MY side. Expect this to be an ongoing thing.

    It's funny because it means that they're going to spend X # of weeks rooting for the bench, while hoping "their team" does poorly so that they can get the guy who legitimately LOST the B.S. QB contest that they endorsed wholeheartedly. That is LITERALLY their situation! They can't root for the Eagles anymore because they have to "defeat BIRDFLIPPER!"

    I TOLD those knuckleheads there is no way a 3rd round pick in his second year, (who was a project pocket QB when drafted), could be better than a #1 OVERALL, 10 year veteran with both a cannon AND wheels. I said that and they decided they could argue with it, then were promptly, completely, and unquestionably HUMILIATED when they were PROVEN to be as WRONG as I TOLD them they were. Proven not by ME, but by Nick Foles's apparent inferiority IN THIS SYSTEM.

    You see the headlines to the s*** they post? I mean who roots against "their team's" starters? Don't we have giant fans, Foreskins fans, and Cowpie fans for that already?

    At this rate they'll be rooting against the Eagles harder than the Foreskin fans come Monday night. So yeah, you'd best believe they're laying low right now. Lucky for them YB is so deserted, because otherwise they would have a LOT more people on their cases for coming on here and rooting against OUR Eagles.
  • I dont know how far Vick can take them but what i do know is Foles isnt taking them anywhere. They dont care if the guys arm is a rag they want anyone or anything but Vick. Look they were part of the mob that chased McNabb out of town so I dont expect much from them anyway but GTD cant seem to let it go. His last post was a Foles last gasp for oxygen it was pathetic. He cant talk about the other areas of the team we need to watch. Vick is the least of the problems.
  • And this is why I blocked them. If I wanted to visit a Vick bashing site, I'd find one.

    I come here to discuss the FULL team. Anyone looking to do anything else has to do it with somebody else and on someone else's posts.

    I'm done arguing. You either make the cut or you don't.
  • Game 4 doesn't matter. It was all vanilla and backup players. The Eagles were evaluating.. But in the end, players from both side wanted to win the game because they are in the game.

    But seriously, let's not take the 4th pre season game for more than what it was.. Evaluation and that's it.
  • Im hoping that a healthy Peters coupled with a promising rookie and healing line will help the Eagles get back on track. But, Im a little concerned about the WR position it lacks depth and Jackson hasnt been effective in double coverage. I expect alot of McCoy and some innovation to help get us into a better place. I mean that is Chips area of expertise.
  • My guess is a lot of that double coverage will evaporate when teams need to spy Vick and/or bring 8 man fronts. The guy I have my eye on (again) is Cooper. He and Vick looked sharp in preseason, so much so that I drafted him (late) in both of my fantasy leagues.
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