Foles must take Eagles to the playoffs

Posted November 25, 2013

This is the true test.  If Foles can guide this team to the playoffs  I think he has earned the right to be considered the starter next year.  A season ending tie or less and Im afraid we have traveled a long path to nowhere.   Winners take advantage of opportunities and he has one.  Many times McNabb put the team on his back and guided them to the playoffs.  Now its Foles turn.  I think he is agood game manager against losing dejected squads.  But against the better teams in the NFL he is going to have to show he can get behind and win.  There are alot of young QBs putting up big numbers thats the new NFL.  I see no real differentiation between a guy like Foles or Glennon.   Its not bad but thats the class I think he is in.  If anyone here thinks Foles is in the Brady , Brees class they have faulty judgement.    This is Luries perfect scenario.  If Foles is mildly successful he can neglect the QB position get rid of Vick, let go of maclin and draft a WR on a rookie contract next season.  Thats serious cost cutting.  Thats my guess that Lurie wants to go farther than the bottom PR.  Thats where we are and sooner or later that will show up on the field when it counts.  

87 Comments:
  • I think you waste time putting Foles in any class. You already messed up, because you put Foles in Mat Ryan's class. Stop wasting time labeling Foles. Just enjoy the ride man.
  • Sure Hollywood, sure. Foles HAS to lead this team to the playoffs in his second year yet you were okay starting a ten year vet who gets a lot of the blame for the Eagles missing the playoffs the last two years. Do you get what kind of a fool you seem like when you type this crap?
  • Ironically there are many people who feel this way about Foles. I've seen it other places as well. That's not to say that I agree with it, that it's right, or that it's wise. I'm just stating he's not alone in such odd thinking. Too many people are playing the label game when it comes to Foles. They want to unfairly judge him on his mistakes, and minimize his successes. I remember how happy certain people were to see Vick back out there against the Giants and the first series he throws a pick and bails soon after to injuries again. The same people who are over critical of Foles simply ignores that type of play from Vick or worse come up with lame excuses for him.
  • Mostly Vick fans feel that way, Eazy. Just like I've been stating all year the important thing is to see where Foles is at the end of the year. If Foles looks incredible the rest of the year but the defense starts folding in the red zone and giving up 30 points a game then it would be unwise and unfair to dub Foles a failure if they don't make it to the playoffs. Fans will always unfairly judge the talent on "their" teams for some reason or another...I just hope Kelly doesn't with Foles ONLY because he's not the fleetest of foot. Believe me, I'm still not totally sold on Foles but if he keeps looking this good during games it will be hard to justify drafting a QB in the 1st round next year.
  • I wouldn't mind seeing them draft a QB, but at this point I think it would be a waste for any of the top three or four picks. I think Barkley will get better a year longer in the league and one more year removed from his injury. He could end up being a solid number two. If they wanted to promote someone like Dixon or draft a guy in the latter rounds I would be fine with that, but this team has too many holes to waste a high pick on a QB.
  • Every game is big from here on out. He certainly has the chance to prove himself. It's not fair to say we need to make the playoffs. He might play really well and not be a factor in us losing.
  • Im not sure that rule applies. The goon squad here has always placed Vicks success at making the playoffs and beyond. why should Foles get any slack? He isnt a rookie and has almost a full season of games under his belt. He needs to show in the guts of a tough games(plural) he can come through. Its not enough to say he had a good week and then oops a bad one. We need to know our QB bruings the team stability. We should find out in the coming weeks. If teams measure him and beat him then I know he isnt the guy. But if teams respect him from beginning to end of thegame then he may be a stable QB for the Eagles. We will find out in the 4th qtr.
  • If you can't differentiate between a thirty something year old who's done nothing but lose, make turnovers, and get injured the past few years over a guy starting in his eleventh NFL game then it's on you for not getting it.
  • This year getting into the playoffs isn't a test of anything. Usually we have the toughest division in football, but this year it seems that the division will send the least awful team instead of it's best. (Football announcers are almost enjoying talking about this, by the way. My guess is many of them have rooted for team in bottom feeder divisions and are enjoying seeing us get our taste of mediocrity.)

    A couple years ago the 9-7 giants got hot as Wildcard and won it all, so you don't want to count anybody out. That said, 9-7, 8-8 are not indicators of a deep playoff run. If we go and win AT LEAST ONE GAME, that would be the test. Otherwise all we're doing is giving away draft position if we make it.
  • I disagree with you. This is a division that has three well entrenched starting QBs. If Foles manages to get this team to the playoffs it would be a huge victory for Foles development. It would establish him as a QB that can go toe to toe with the other Qbs in the division. Not only that , you could make easy arguments that all the teams in our division have more talent than the Eagles. So to me Foles getting us there is a solid test and indicator that he could be a longterm QB.
  • Just because a QB is entrenched doesn't mean his team is any good. And it's entire teams that make the playoffs, not just the QB.

    And with Bob Griffin demonstrating poor leadership; Eli Manning leading the NFL in turnovers; and Tony Romo's play currently slumping down the stretch, Foles is hardly being tested with pressure within his division.
  • Leave it to Hollywood and flip to be okay with Vick's failures and suddenly want Foles who has a dozen games under his belt to pass the tests they have set for him. Not surprised with either one especially flip's since he wanted Kelly to have so many of Reid's mistakes fixed before camp even started (yet wanted Reid back) and Hollywood...well he wouldn't be Hollywood if he didn't expect more out of a young QB he's ripped than the ten year vet he's praised for almost no results.
  • One guy says he has to make the playoffs and the other says he better win a game or two. It's actually kind of funny when they were so happy with winning 7-8 games and the idea giving extensions to Vick from such a subpar season.
  • I just get a kick out of both of them being fine with Vick at the helm (actually very "vocal" that it had to be Vick after Vick had a .500 run during his Eagle career and turned the ball over way too often) yet they are setting parameters for a second year QB who is playing way better than most people thought he could (especially the two of them). Does it seem like they have an agenda here? Couldn't be that they were typing how ridiculous the thought of Foles starting over Vick seemed to them not that long ago, could it? What did you type a couple days ago?...pathetic!
  • Fortunately none of them have any say in what the Eagles decide to do. The Eagles will make their decisions on Foles by his play. Still I find it hilarious for a guy who cried so much about not tanking suddenly complain about draft positioning. Dude is like two years too late.
  • I will feed your arguing appetite. First of all, I clearly stated I wanted Vick to start the season. I have no other agenda but to win games. You see any team that makes the playoffs can go all the way. i watched the ravens do it twice. So winning is the only thing I want to see. I dont care about projects. a paying fan deserves results especially ina tow that financially supports its team. Do I believe Vick is the future ? No Do I think Vick has talent? Yes. In the right scenario he can win alot of games just like carson palmer. I told you severl times he should start the season and Foles should come off the bench. If the the team was losing I had no problem making switches to get wins. If its Foles that wins thats fine with me. Why cant you get that through your thick skull I dont care who wins as long as they win. But if my memory serves me correctly you wanted losses for draft position. The loser mentality. If Vick can provide a spark late in the season in any role I say use him. He doesnt have a fat contract to hold a clipboard. The Eagles dont have so much talent that they can afford to have him walk around in street clothes. Thats a waste and selfish management control.
  • Just stop with the BS. Foles is winning yet you make up "excuses" why he's doing well just like you made up excuses why Vick was playing so poorly. You type you want wins and try to come across that those wins would come at the arm and legs of Vick yet he's 2-4 as a starter this year and Foles is 4-1....you type that you want wins yet Vick is right around .500 as a starter in Philly with many of his wins happening way back in 2010. Just like I've stated before you want your comments and your predictions to be right just like birdflipper. You both would rather see the Eagles struggle so you can pat each other on the back and type "told you so".
  • Hollywood you're crazy if you think in the right situation Vick is going to win, because it's never been the right situation and he's never won. His career win loss total is around .500, he's had one season with a winning record, and players who turn the ball over to go with lack of scoring DO NOT WIN. Vick can't score in the Red Zone. That's not an opinion. It's a fact go look it up. The truth is if you cared about winning you would stop all this complaining, because since Foles has been inserted that's what the team has been doing. Vick wasn't winning yet you sit here crying for him like you are his puppy waiting for him to come home. You sir don't care about winning. You care about Vick. Just like your counter part continue to be angry like idiots instead of enjoying wins. If you two weren't so fraudulent you would have been placing all of those stipulations of yours on the thirty something vet that has repeatedly let us down rather than to the young gun who is actually winning games. Smarten up dude.
  • I noticed flip's comment about draft position. I guess he forgot that he typed that wins are more important to a team than draft position earlier this year. See how he's all over the place when things don't go his way? I really wanted to see what he had to type about "Saint" Andy and how he let Bowe play after his arrest a couple weeks ago...how he did NOTHING just like he did when Eagles were arrested when he coached here. Wasn't he ripping on Kelly for doing nothing with McCoy and Peters and trying to insinuate that Eagle players kept their control when Reid was here? The guy was so busy ripping on a first year coach he contradicted himself the whole way and set himself up for future contradictions.
  • He's a fraud and everyone knows it. He's the one coming at the fan base earlier this year for not being loyal at the same time he's supporting two other teams. We know he's a fraud, exposed him as such and that's why he's spending time on this site discussing football with Midget nod Cryboys fans. They rip his "team" and he smiles and agrees like he's some kind of Uncle Tom in the flesh.
  • Lol. I know...he's gotten so desperate for attention that he thinks nothing of discussing football with someone who tried making his time on here a living hell just because he felt like it. He trashed his comedy troupe, ripped on a soldier flip sent out a tribute to and went after him for personal reasons that had nothing to do with football...but just like with Hollywood all the guy needs to do is agree with flip a few times and flip's happy...how sad that flip looks past the knowledge that it's all part of that barker's game...same with Hollywood. He kisses Hollywood's ass and Hollywood thinks he has a friend for life.
  • All in all I don't really care about what they do. I know the Eagles are doing the right things. I see a direction and a future.
  • A new coach brings a new outlook. A new outlook may be here but a direction and future I am not necessarily sure about that. We need to make a playoff push or this season is just like last year and the year before. Winning a couple of games against marginal teams. Didnt we win 5 in a row to end 2011? And what did that prove except that we could suck even worse in 2012. So dont get carried away because if we end the season at .500 we are right back where we began 0-0
  • You're right Hollywood, and that's precisely why everyone was sick of Vick and Reid. They have made this team stagnant, but you're wrong to assume these situations are the same. The Eagles won four games that meant nothing for them and they won all of their games against teams without a winning record. They never really challenged for anything that season and they didn't control their own destiny. If the Eagles win they are in. It's that simple this time.
  • I aree. And Foles is better than he was last year. He has a decent oline so now he has an opportunity to establish himself as the starter. Just because Chip "announces" it doesnt make his actions on the field count for nothing. If he f's up the fans will pull a train on Chip and Foles rear end. I dont think it served anything to make that proclamation. he was playing good football looking over his shoulder. maybe that helped. Ive never seen a team announce a starter the rest of the season. Nobody ever said here Flacco is the starter the remainder of he season. Thats just the organization controlling the fans and I hate that. Lurie isnt dumb but he has become preictable. All I say is shut up jeff and just deliver.
  • Really? You're going to whine about Kelly announcing that Foles is his starter the rest of the way? You're going to insinuate that no coach in the history of football has ever announced a starter for the remainder of the season and this is just a Eagles thing...no, a Lurie thing? If it was the other way around you would be on here insisting that Kelly announce Vick his starter the rest of the way and you know it. Should I even comment about you stating that Foles is better this year? Is that really a shock to you that a second year QB improved especially since he is surrounded by better players?
  • The 49ers did the very same thing last season, and Lurie didn't make the choice of QB. Nick Foles with his own play did. Mike Vick helped with his typical injury as well. You want to blame someone for Foles staring? Start at you're hero Mike Vick.
  • I dont think Vick should start the next game or probably the game after that but I wouldnt say in anyway any player is the "starter for the remainder of the season". That in itself tells me you dont have do do the job because your off the hook. bad idea.
  • According to this logic no team should ever name a starter...just call it week by week. Clueless.
  • "starting" is fine. But "remainder of season" why is that added. I guess that means as a fan you have to sit through what ever comes from Foles. So if he throws 5 picks two games in a row tough tootsies?
  • I had to sit through Vick's good and bad. Why is it any different? I sat through many of a McNabb bad day. If Foles throws a few interceptions it means he's human. Vick throws more picks than any QB we've had in 20 years, but you don't seem to care, so do yourself a favor and don't start worrying about them now if Foles does.
  • We are in a playoff hunt. Vick is a capable player. If Foles doesnt get the job done you do everything in your power to win games . Buit now the Vick option is off the table? Thats brilliant.
  • Vick is a failed option. We are in a playoff hunt despite Mike and not because of. Have you been watching the games?
  • Have you paid attention at all this year? Foles 4-1... Vick 2-4.
  • The Vick option is NOT off the table, but right now it's behind the Foles and Barkley options. Lurie said he wants to see whether or not he has to draft a QB or sign one FA after 2013. Considering that Option-based offenses have a tendency to expose QB's to hits/injury, there is a fair chance that you'll see Vick again before they clean out their lockers this year.

    While Foles has been killing it, he also has yet to play well against a team .500 or better. Lurie made the point when he fired Reid that playoff wins are his measuring stick, not regular season wins.
  • Just a couple days ago someone posted that the YOUNG Nick Foles real test would be WINNING a playoff game or two and up above makes the statement that Jeff Lurie has made the point that his measuring stick is winning in the playoffs when discussing Foles. This is his comment when discussing Vick possibly taking the Eagles to the playoffs earlier this year:

    The reason I say this is because of Chip Kelly. If he makes the postseason in his first year, then gives up the QB that got him there, he HAS TO do better than 2013 in either 2014 or 2015. He can't afford to succeed with the guy he made earn it, and then fail because he gave him up for the guy who lost the QB contest (Nick Foles), or less (meaning Matt Barkley or a lesser 2014 Draft prospect).

    If Vick is successful this season, Kelly is married to him. Unless of course Kelly can broom Vick, and do better immediately. However, anything less than more than 2013, makes Kelly and thus owner Jeff Lurie look foolish. That has a way of shortening a coaching career.


    Why the switch all of a sudden when discussing a second year QB, flip? Why would Kelly have been married to Vick just for making the playoffs yet the second year pro who will only have a full season of starts at years end needs to win a game or two in the playoffs to prove something to you? Just you again setting different standards for the players (and coaches) you approve of and the ones you don't. No consistency at all! You and Hollywood spend too much time looking for ways Foles could fail (and seemingly hoping for it). Enjoy "your" teams success. Reid's gone and Kelly's here...stop hoping he fails and enjoy the wins. Foles is in until he fails and Vick will be gone in 2014 and that's the way it should be. If Foles struggles the rest of the way then the Eagles know what they need to do in 2014...draft a QB.
  • Said nothing about testing Foles.

    3 days ago, as a reply on this post: http://www.yardbarker.com/forum/3/57/discussion/good_game_move_on_yesterdays_news/14968364, what I said was:

    "It's a test that we need now though. Not a single one of our 6 wins has come against a winning team. If we're to see the playoffs, we're going to need to beat teams that had winning records. Other than that, if all we're doing is one and done, all we're doing is wrecking our draft position.

    If we go it should be as a team that can get at least one playoff win that our youth can build on. A postseason appearance as a doormat does nothing for this team's future."

    It's just you and EZ who want to talk about the EAGLES like it's just Foles and Vick. Some of us get that the EAGLES are more than just 2 guys. Incidentally Vick and Foles are TEAMMATES. It makes no sense that you two would try to inspire more contention between fans than Vick and Foles have between them over a spot they both openly want.

    Shame on you for trying to set EAGLES fans at each other's throats, when you SHOULD BE enjoying your teams success with fellow fans.
  • This is a really stupid argument. I walk away, because it's a waste of time.
  • Lat night the Cowboys hardly looked panicked being behind the Raiders. Romo didnt bat an eye. The Raiders were measured and clipped. Thats when you know you have a good QB. When he doesnt feel intimidated down by 14. When Foles accomplishes that feat Ill say hes the man but I have yet to see him in that situation. I saw the Eagles play the pourous Redskins , Raiders & Bucs team. And the Giants wre going to lose to Vick or Foles. So why is this so different from 2011? Lets see what happens vs Cards and Lions. Much stiffer tests. I think the front office is anticipating trouble ahead and that comment was a little protection.
  • LOL @ flip. I should be ashamed of myself from the guy who berated barkers for being upset about a struggling team only to bury them himself every step of the way this offseason MAINLY because they let go of Andy Reid after 14 long years? Spin it all you want...we both know it's true. I absolutely am enjoying this season (especially now that the Vick era seems to be ending)...I can do that and still help expose you for the egoist you are though you do a great job at that yourself with what you type.

    Do these words look familiar to you, flip?


    This year getting into the playoffs isn't a test of anything. Usually we have the toughest division in football, but this year it seems that the division will send the least awful team instead of it's best. (Football announcers are almost enjoying talking about this, by the way. My guess is many of them have rooted for team in bottom feeder divisions and are enjoying seeing us get our taste of mediocrity.)

    They are yours from this post in reply to Hollywood discussing how FOLES will be tested so go ahead and spin what you meant. Hollywood is discussing Foles yet you meant the whole team when you typed "test", right? Spin away flip...spin away. By the way, you really seem to be THRILLED with the Eagles "mediocrity". LOL.

    Where do you see me trying to build contention with anyone but possibly you and Hollywood? Most barkers don't care what I discuss on here and if I choose to discuss Foles and Vick (the hottest topic surrounding the Eagles) or you and Hollywood I will continue to do that. I keep it clean and I keep it truthful. I find it funny that you're all for discussing that very topic until you're on the losing end of the argument and THEN you decide that's the time we should all step away from it. It happened with McNabb...it happened with Vick...maybe you ought to just stop suggesting what the rest of us should or shouldn't be discussing? After Foles struggles after the Dallas game you had plenty to type and seemed fine discussing with Hollywood how Foles' play didn't surprise you....after all that's what Foles truly was according to you, right? That's just one of the problems I have with you...you aren't happy Foles is doing well. The words you choose to type show that. You predicted he would not do well so that's what you want to see...him struggle. When he struggles you're all for discussing it but when he's playing well it's a few generic comments about your fantasy football team and even more comments about how he could still be out as the QB next year. The funny thing is that I will admit that it could happen. I'm a realist, flip. I'm not sold on Foles but I want to see the kid do well...I want to see the Eagles do well and as the Dallas and the Giants second game showed...this team is only as good as it's QB. I have stated all year that I wanted Foles to have this season so the Eagles could see what they need to do with that #1 pick next year. I thought it was important that he face a whole year of possible ups and downs...I guess now the Eagles must use the shortened season version. I also agree with one thing you've been hitting on all year...even with all of Foles' success this year I do think Kelly would rather have a QB who could run his whole arsenal of plays. I'm hoping that Foles continues to make Kelly's decision next off season an easy one because just like you stated, Kelly would have a hard time moving away from the QB who helped take the team to the post season.




  • I actually NEED Foles to play well. Unlike you, I'm actually invested in the guy. I at no point said he had no talent, in fact I said the polar opposite when I said that he, Vick, and Barkley are ALL talented in their own right. But Foles is a dropback QB not an Option QB. That alone means he is not well suited for this (Option based) system, and can never run it at full tilt. As you just said above: "I do think Kelly would rather have a QB who could run his whole arsenal of plays". This is the reason that others (who NEVER grace YB, and who get paid to analyze this stuff) are also speculating that the EAGLES will draft a QB high next year. Not just draft one at some point, but draft one high.

    I drafted him in fantasy (as a sleeper) because A) It was a given that Vick would miss time (as is his custom); and B) I was certain Kelly's system would produce numbers (as did Spurrier's). That said, numbers and wins (especially against quality teams) are entirely different things. (See: EAGLES 2013).

    6-5 with all 6 wins vs. sub-500 teams; A Defense that is dead last against the pass, and 21st against the run; an Offense that is 45% in the red zone (including a 58% over the last 3 games). Does that sound like a playoff TEAM to you? I say TEAM not QB, because Foles has nothing to do with some of those numbers. No need for spin.

    As far as you taking the moral high ground: Brother it's all yours! I have no desire to debate, as it gains me nothing for the effort; and as the same amount of validity is afforded to lunatics as it is to those of us know this sport. Here you don't win even when you do. So it defeats the point, know? Better to be enlightened and just be in a better place I think.
  • I actually thinkthe Eagles coaching staff has done a decent job having this team prepared . I think the stats Flip rolled out really tell a bigger story about how we are arent thatgood overall. I think we lack talent. Ive said it before and I stand behind it. Ithink the eagle announcement about foles is a preemptive strike against some games coming up where we could be exposed. Im very concerned about the upcoming game. Its a losers announcement . Its like saying Foles is gonna stay even if we lose badly. Foles is gona stay no matter what no options. It stinks like a turd.
  • I think he has to stay the starter. (And it's not just because of my fantasy teams, because I also have Phillip Rivers.)

    With the way Foles has been performing there is no fair way to yank him now. Remember how Vick won the job from Kolb? A back-up playing hair-on-fire out-shined the named Starter. This exactly that. Foles has so far looked good against bad teams and not so hot against good ones. In all fairness we haven't recently faced a many good teams and Nick Foles didn't make the schedule. We're only now coming up on a stretch of good teams and Foles deserves a chance to show what he's got. If only as an audition for his next team.

    My guess is that it won't be Foles that looks bad, but Shady. My guess is better teams will make a point of taking away the run on early downs and try to make us one dimensional on 3rd. In every one of our losses except the Chiefs, McCoy was held to under 75 yards rushing (55, 158, 73, 55, 48). HE is the straw that stirs the drink, and good teams will see that.
  • Thats is true. This is a team that cant be one dinemsional an win. Qbs like Rodgers, Brees and Brady can work around it but Im not convinced Foles can without a team effort. in not arguing that Foles shouldnt start. Im only questioning of the sense of announcing a starter fro "the remainder of the season". Fans in B-more found it odd and were sort of perplexed by it. I think its a safety net and not a vote of confidence. When did they ever tell Mcnabb he was the starter the remainder of the season? Just odd choice of words.
  • Come on flip...you type you have no desire to debate me after spending most of your comment doing just that? Good luck with that big investment with your fantasy football team. Such a huge investment on your team, I'm sure. Just look at your last comment up above. You want to discuss how McCoy may be suffering because of Foles instead of bringing up how by teams concentrating on McCoy we finally may have a QB who takes advantage of those safeties coming up to take away the run. If Foles keeps taking advantage he will eventually earn some respect. Keep up the typing...just show me how much you want Foles to succeed. Lol.
  • At what point did I debate you?

    The EAGLES stats are not open to debate.
    It's a fact that there are others who think that the EAGLES aren't settled on Foles long term.
    You and I agree that Kelly can't display his full arsenal with Foles at the controls.
    You and I agree that Foles has talent.
    My fantasy draft situation isn't something you have enough knowledge of to debate.

    I was under the impression that you didn't dispute what I said because we were koom-by-yahing. It seems I was wrong.

    So what are we in contention over, my situation, the facts, or the stuff you said that I agreed with?
  • At what point did you debate me? On my main point, flip. That you would rather be right about your predictions than see the Eagles win with Kelly and Foles. I made the statement, you came on here to debate it and that's what we are doing, isn't it? Go back and read your posts since Kelly was hired. Almost nothing positive...you nit picked and lately you make much more noise when the Eagles struggle. Even now you're looking for more negative to hang on then positive and your recent posts to me prove it. You ask if this defense looks like part of a play off team while ignoring the fact that it has picked it's game up very impressively lately and also ignoring the fact that it takes more than one off season to fix the mess of a defense that the former coach left it in. You want to hang onto the possibilities that the QB you scoffed at running Kelly's offense could have future troubles instead of discussing how good he's looked and how with only 12 starts under him there is still plenty of time for improvement. He's made some mistakes just like most young QBs but unlike the 10 year vet who leans on his athleticism way too much, Foles youth gives him a much higher ceiling. You mentioned he has had so-so games against some teams this year yet in truth he had a better month passer rating wise than any QB has ever had in the history of the NFL. Besides the Cowboys he has been incredible for the most part yet here you are trying to down play it. Just a month ago you were on here discussing how you predicted Kelly's struggles back in March...you weren't even giving the new head coach a half season to decide he was a failure (then again, you've been typing it from day one...even let us know that you would be hounding on all of us how right you were). Who knows, you still could be right but this team certainly looks like it's improving in many of the places you were so down on. Kelly himself...Billy Davis and his defense...and Nick Foles ability to run this defense. Keep up the good work, flip.
  • I was talking about this post. I've not debated you at any point on it.

    No one is hanging onto possibilities surrounding Vick, even after he re-did his deal I said he wouldn't be here next year. I even went as far as to write a post ( http://www.yardbarker.com/forum/3/57/discussion/if_eagles_see_the_playoffs_is_it_a_nightmare/14323718 ) that mentions how hard (read: unpopular) it would be to move on from Vick if we went to the playoffs behind him. I know you've seen this post because you posted an excerpt from it farther up.

    I'm the guy who said that Lurie's edict effectively ended Vick's year. I said "Kelly is married to him. Unless of course Kelly can broom Vick, and do better immediately". Foles is starting! And we both think Vick is done here. This means you agree with me. Or I agree with you. Phrase it how you wish, it still puts you in lockstep with me, in thinking that Vick is done here. The only question is whether or not the EAGLES draft a QB high in May. That's it. No debate on the EAGLES QB situation. Just a question.

    I didn't ask if this looked like a playoff Defense, I specifically used the word TEAM (repeatedly and in all caps). As for the Defense, if you're cool with it, who am I to tell you to not be? As an EAGLES fan, where Defense is concerned (even under Castillo right before he was fired), I'm just accustomed to better than 32nd and 21st rankings being simultaneous things. All facts there, so there is nothing to debate. So by all means enjoy.

    Finally, as for Kelly, look up and down this page. I have not disputed anything positive you've said about him. Perhaps others have, but I have not. If you had said something nice about him and I disputed it, THEN I would be debating you. But as you have said nothing positive about him, and even if you had, since I have responded to none of it, we are not at all debating Charles Kelly.

    I initially was not impressed by Andy either, but he won me with wins over good teams, playoff wins, a Super Bowl appearance, and becoming the EAGLES all-time winningest coach. Kelly doesn't have to do all that, but not being embarrassed by a +.500 team would be a start. My admiration and loyalty do not come cheaply, but when you have them, you own them to your grave. (See: AL DAVIS, Derrick Thomas, Reggie White.)

    No debate.
  • I think its stating the obvious that Vick was not going to be here unless he came out of the gate fast. And he didnt so hes gone barring some miracle. I think Chip has been good so far but time will tell. Like I said earlier the Eagles will be trapped by foles modest success if he wins two more and doesnt make the playoffs. they will be able to avoid a PR roster spot for a QB in the draft and contiue on for at least a year with a question mark at QB. And another Foles "test" season. It has the makings of a full blown car wreck but ill keep quiet.
  • I think we get a new QB because Kelly NEEDS a QB who can run his full playbook. Even GTD up there keeps mumbling about how he isn't sold on Foles, and how Kelly might want a QB who can run his "full arsenal". This is just plain common sense.

    Despite how pumped the anti-Vick crowd kept acting during the offseason, DESPITE Foles HOF game and how he's been "incredible for the most part", what you aren't seeing are tons of posts praising the guy, or tons of his jerseys flying off shelves. It seems that people are getting it.

    Foles continuing in Kelly's system, only hampers what Kelly can call. Now Foles dangled in front of a team like Jacksonville or Cleveland for example, is serious leverage to stock this team with young talent. Especially if we don't make the playoffs and end up with a top 10-15 pick. Kelly will be able to get his QB and a signature WR or OLB or. Give some thought to the idea that a worse finish means we pick earlier in EVERY round. That means we can take a shot at a quality Center or Guard in the 3rd and/or 4th.

    Now if we make the playoffs and go one and done, moving on from Foles will be a P.R. nightmare. The lay fan will only see the playoff spot and not the long picture.

    Let's be clear: I'm not saying the EAGLES should tank. No competitor should do that. The point I'M making is that if we make the playoffs and leave without making any noise, we'll have to hope the division is this bad next year to justify this year.
  • @ flip. My apologies...you did type team but I'm not exactly sure why that is any better. My bad, you went after the whole team and not just the defense. LOL. You still haven't been able to make any comment about the defense improving, have you? You bring up the red zone offense...Nick Foles (the starting QB) is 14-20 (70%) with 7 TDS and obviously no picks. Manning is higher but his 36.8% TD ratio is just higher than Foles 35%. Brady is much lower with both his completion % and TD ratio. You prove my whole point with your comments though. For the couple decent things you have to type about this team you still look for things to bury them about...you're looking for those negatives. Most of us on here are hoping that Foles keeps improving and gives reason for Kelly to give him the nod here but you typing that Foles will be gone next year doesn't allow that does it? Nope...can't have the birdflipper wrong about such a bold statement. As for me stating I'm not sold on him...I don't jump the gun, flip (it's been only a dozen starts spread out over two years). I'm not about making those predictions that you and Hollywood seem to love so much. I'm willing to give any player or coach time and the opportunity to prove to me that they can do what they are getting paid to do. I'm still there with Foles but would love for him to keep shining, for him to make it impossible for Kelly to move on from him. The rare predictions that you and Hollywood get right do nothing for me...the many you get wrong yet refuse to admit just make you seem full of yourselves.
  • Who else should I be full of if not myself?

    As for the Defenses rankings, I got them from national broadcasts. They happen to be facts. If you wish to call reporting truths "looking for negatives", I cannot stop you, nor do I wish to try to stop you from doing this thing. It's not my words you dispute, it is the EAGLES results and the reporting of others.

    As for my speculations/predictions, it is a past-time that most sports fans also enjoy. I have no intention of stopping just because someone who irrationally does not like me anyway, would like to see me do so. If you do not enjoy them you do not have to respond to them. Even more logically, if you know that you are going to be upset by anything I write, you may want to do yourself a favor and stop reading my stuff.

    Or not. Again I cannot stop you. Why would I want to even if I could? I would offer you some advice however. It is not healthy for one to engage in activities that upset one's self or which promotes one's own suffering. Your anger seems to need an outlet. Might I suggest some therapy. It may be nice to have someone to talk to about the things which are so plainly vexing your soul my friend.

    I will pray for you.
  • Thanks, buddy. You do that. In the meantime I will enjoy watching the Eagles keep winning and you keep showing me what you're truly about. Trying to shove your opinions down other barkers throats and picking out every little flaw that you think you see going on with the Eagles. Deny it if you want to...there's quite a few months of it going straight back to the day they let Reid go.
  • 7-5, and another home win. Can't beat it.
  • Absolutely, Eazy and another impressive day by the whole team practically (although I can't wait until Wolff is healthy...Chung seems to be the culprit when there is a big play given up anymore although if they would have lost today I would have laid plenty of the blame on Hollywood's favorite player...Kurt Coleman). The defense stepped it up with a few needed turnovers, Foles made some nice throws and the receivers bailed him out on a couple. Overall, a nice win as they keep rolling.'
  • Did you notice how Williams chewed Chung out for hitting him instead of the receiver? Dude is a liability.
  • Foles still hasnt shown me that late game closer ability. But lets hope in the late third and fourth quarters he can get his game together. Then the Eagles wont have to look for a QB.
  • The W is what matters. Again Foles didn't have a great game, and still had over 250 yards and three touchdowns. I think it was more on the coaches and their play calling to go with some bad Eagles penalties in the second half, but they still won. Foles also took back the lead against the Giants so I'm not sure why you're harping on something that he's already done. Also McNabb wasn't all that good at coming back in games, because for the most part he didn't have to and do you know why? He didn't make stupid errors and turn the ball over giving his opponents short fields. Conversely, Vick is a turnover machine that consistently forces his own defense to try and step up for his screw ups. That's why he's had a few comebacks in his Eagles career, but frankly those comebacks were too few and far between. Do yourself a favor. Stop hoping for Foles to fail and just enjoy some football. You're team is winning. Be happy.
  • Nobody is talking about Vick anymore. He is the backup. Foles is almost there. Just a little more control of the game in the later qtrs and i think he will be a solid starter. Just part of learning i think. But it seems like the team is playing for him so its better than watching Vick runaround like a lunatic.
  • Surprised to see you have accepted Vick's role as a backup here. It will be a short lived role. Some telling signs to Vick's future here was first Mike stating he believes he can start two more seasons. Clearly he doesn't mean in Philly. The other was the wildcat run with Brad Smith over Vick. In the Red Zone, and the Eagles would rather run that play with a guy just off the street than with Mike Vick???? It seems clear that Kelly has lost all confidence in the abilities of his former starting quarterback.
  • I said if he doesnt produce early I have no problem making a change. I would say Foles has been a pleasant suprise and hopefully his game continues to improve. He has some work to do bt I have no porblem with Vick riding the pine. Id like to see Foles stronger late in games.
  • The late game setbacks I feel are more attributed to the coach changing up and letting off the gas. He seems determined to try and run the football even when it's not there. Far too many third in longs in the second half. Jason Avant really stinks right now.
  • They need a really good slot receiver. A big strong body and I think their offense is almost complete. maybe an investment in a Ol for quality depth.
  • I missed that but the Eagles would have only given up 3 if Chung made the tackle on Fitzgerald on the Cards' first TD. He also missed the back on what should have been little gain on a pass out on the sidelines...instead it went for about 30 yards.
  • Williams yelled "you hit me!" It was on a first down catch where the player caught the ball between Williams, Chung, and Cole. I would rather see Earl and Nate out there.
  • I remember seeing a db hit another player but didn't know who it was or what was said afterwards...maybe not even the same play. Chung either isn't healthy or giving up plays. Maybe he's Vick 's counterpart on defense.
  • He's been a liability out there. He's going to cause one of our players to get hurt.
  • I have said all along the Eagles should try to win it all and Im sticking with it. Ive seen this scenario before in Balto. Now the Eagles might be peaking early but if they can get stronger and better I see know reason why this team cant challenge the other contenders. We have stayed pretty injury free and our young players are only getting better. Im not willing to toss Vick out as a contributor in a real playoff run. I think its a mistake to ignore his skills set altogether.
  • Not sure why always attack flip. He has a very good working knowledge of the game. You seem to want to antagonize him. The guy has a good perspective but you cant expect him to be right on every point he makes. But his analysis of Foles has been fair and to date Im not convinced Foles is the future. But if he is it wont be in the role of a Brady , Manning or Brees. He will be good not great if he doesnt make mistakes. If he makes mistakes he will lose alot of games. jury is still out even with the streak. he got a favorable call vs the Cards had it stood the skeptics would have a field day. He is still a work in progress and nobody knows his upside if he has one not even Chip.
  • I QUESTION flip for a few reasons and I would be lying if I typed that none of it was personal. First of all the man is a blowhard that honestly takes just about no other opinion to heart besides his own. Mainly I don't like how he came on here last year to chide us and give us crap for being down on an Eagle team that was so obviously heading in the wrong direction that only Andy Reid's family wouldn't understand letting him go (the funny thing is that I'm sure Andy Reid gets it). To make matters worse flip turns 180 and becomes this site's biggest whiner when Reid FINALLY gets let go and rips the Eagles for EVERYTHING...some legitimate but many tiny little points that were nothing but nit picking. The Eagles had a 12-20 run that we were unhappy about and flip "buried" us for discussing it then preceded to cry because the Eagles fired a 14 year coach that couldn't get it done and had this team mired in it's worse slump in over a decade and hired a coach that so far has come as advertised. I don't give him crap for EVERYTHING, Hollywood but if he makes a point I think is ridiculous (he makes more than he will ever admit) I will tell him about it from time to time. The blowhard likes to pat himself on the back when he FEELS he gets a comment right so I just make sure I let him know when he's gotten a few of them wrong, that's not my fault it happens quite often.

    By the way I was going to type this the other day but for some reason didn't and I apologize for that. You admitting Foles has shown you something is a big step for you...not sure I ever remember you changing your opinion on someone you were so down on. In the past you would have argued Foles was a bum right until he took the team to the Super Bowl (not typing that will ever happen).
  • I've read some people think we should bring Maclin back as the slot guy, but dude is soft as a marshmallow and is pretty much injury prone. I think it's time to move on from Maclin. Hollywood as far as Vick is concerned if Kelly can incorporate a backup player into his offense while not disrupting the flow of the offense then sure bring Vick in on a play or two, but I doubt he can accomplish this. Also Vick has shown that when he's rusty he is more inclined to turn the ball over and Mike hasn't proven he perform in the Red Zone. There doesn't seem to be a viable way to use Vick and frankly the reward doesn't justify the risk.
  • I agree with you about Maclin he is soft. he is gonna want money that he probably isnt worth. There are some solid receivers looking for homes. idnt see why we cant look at guys like Nicks, Johnson...etc. Or draft a WR early and use some saved money on the DL or OL. We are beginning to look like a well rounded team. With our cleared cap room we should be able to add quality depth and the missing peices. All of this is assuming that Foles can be the QB moving forward.
  • Nicks is another injury prone guy, but he does fit the Big People Beat Up Little People mode. I would rather they address the problem in the draft, but I don't think they need to draft a slot guy high in the draft. I still think they could use an extra offensive lineman, a pass rush linebacker, a safety, cornerback, wide receiver, kicker, and backup runningback. I wouldn't say this would be the order I would address these, and I do think they could address some of this via a free agent or two as well.
  • I have a dilemna when it comes to judging Nick Foles. He is doing some excellent things and making great plays but I dont see a "great QB" with my own eyes. I see a potential game mangager like a Trent Dilfer. I do nt see Foles as a machine like Brady or Brees even in this streak hes in. When the pressure comes he doesnt remind of Flacco. Flacco can play w/o an good oline. He gets hit but can unload a laser at the last minute buing time for his receivers. I think Foles can read well but I dont know he has a quick release or a powerful pass. You have to respect what he has done but I want that QB that can put a team on his back late in the game and make tough tight plays under pressure. Foles has yet to do that. I know the stats are wonderful but like I said we could have harder decsions to make at year end in the draft with nothing to show for this in 2013. What do you do draft a QB if we dont make the playoffs. I say yes.
  • I think the Eagles will make a decision, but at this point I don't see any of these college guys especially where the Eagles will draft worthy enough to replace Foles. Teams miss out on great players, because they don't fit some silly mold. So far the best two quarterbacks from their draft class are Foles and Wilson. Both were taken late, and both didn't have the intangibles of the other guys taken ahead of them. People read too much into what a player is supposed to look like and ignore what a player is doing. That's why the Patriots win, because they get football players. Tom Brady wasn't great in NOBODY'S eyes at first. In fact when he replaced Drew Bledsoe he still didn't look all that great. He's worked to become the player he is today, and most of that isn't from his physical tools. It's from his mental preparation. I've told you before McNabb was far and away more talented than Brady, but the fact is McNabb isn't considered in his class. The reason has nothing to do with talent and everything to do with the will of the player.
  • I may agree with that. Foles is Foles and there wont e another QB like him. Thats true so we dont really know what we have yet. From a physical standpoint he has the benefit of size and good vision. But he lacks manueverability and arm strength. His arm is no better or worse than many average starting QBs. So what are his great attributes? Seriously I dont know.
  • I think his greatest asset is his mind. He just does those things that good QBs do. The pass he layed out to Jackson was a thing of beauty. The Cardinals thought they could rattle him, and they blitzed him 70% of the time in the first half and he torched them for it. He uses his eyes to hold and move safeties. The thing is he's still raw, and still learning the system. Consider this. This is his second season, but now he has new coaches, that everyone thought didn't want him, running an offense that supposedly doesn't fit him, and he's lighting the league up. With all that change you might as well consider him still a rookie. Everyone is concerned how RG3 will respond with a new coaching staff, but here Foles plays like nothing changed at all. In fact he's played so well that some consider him an MVP candidate. Foles looks awkward, but he also makes it all seem too easy. That and everyone having trouble letting go of past players like Hoying and Kolb are why people are skeptical. If RG3 or Luck were doing what Foles has done no one would question it.
  • You have a good point. Hes really the first 6'6" QB to look that good. It is a big advantage to see over that line and he utilizes it. Ive live in a place where solid field managers win superbowls so maybe Foles is the right guy for Philly. It seems like everyone on the team is responding. Much more of a team vs individual effort. I still hope he can rise higher and show he can lead comebacks...etc
  • Big test today for Foles. Snow, and it will be difficult to view the field. These types of games that Brady made some mistakes in these types of games, but for some reason his teams used to always come out on top.
  • still the same ol same here i see
  • Hey Monster! Long time no see. Where you been dude?
  • Happiness is realizing that a dome team will have to play us in the snow.
  • Loving how the 2nd leading (probably leading now) rusher in the NFL just took over this game. Here all this time everyone kept making the same lame comments about how ineffective he and this run offense is without a running QB. You would think this amazing record breaking performance would put that nonsense to bed, but alas some people will never see the light. Shady McCoy is one of if not the best running back in the NFL.
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