Add Comment

• mom2a2 said February 04, 2009

  I agree on all points. I still think that they will give him a new deal. They really have no choice, plenty of cap room and nobody better and available at the qb position gives Donovan the edge here.
  I would also like to see a BIG DE! Oh well. Time will tell.....

  Reply

  
• willydee77 said February 04, 2009

  Man what a super bowl! It sure was refreshing to see TWO QBs throw the ball accurately where their recievers could flourish and make big plays, it was also beautiful to see TWO QBs execute LATE FOURTH QUARTER DRIVES that gave their teams a lead. Unbeleivable how long its been since Mcnabb has led a late game drive to tie or take the lead. Its been at least 5 years, these 2 did it on the same night. And the accuracy issue. These QBs made throws that Don can not even make. Bens 2 endzone passes to Holmes, the one Holmes missed and the one he caught were things of beauty, AND LETS NOT FORGET HIS THROW OUT OF THE ENDZONE WHEN THEY WERE CALLED FOR A SAFETY BECAUSE OF A HOLD CALL. That throw was amazing. Donovan would have never made that thorw without eye contact with the reciever for about 8 seconds. and Warner throws a perfect ball at a perfect time giving a reciever plenty to do with it. Basically his last TD pass to FITZ was the same pass against the same coverage that Mcnabb threw to Avant in the ill fated Cards game that Avant had to dive to the ground for, resulting in a first down but with no safety help SHOULD HAVE BEEN A TD. Its just frustrating. That pretty much sums up how I feel about our QB in compariso to TWO QBs who deserved to win the Super Bowl. Mcnabb does alot GOOD, but he is not Good enough to win that game. He just isn't.

  Reply

  
  • Qwest336 replied February 04, 2009

    What a joke. You are going to compare these two QB's to McNabb? Kurt Warner's career has been hancuffed with Isaac Bruce, Torry Holt, Marshall Faulk, Larry Fitzgerald, and Anquan Boldin. Ben Roethliesberger has had Plaxico Burress, Hines Ward, and Santonio Holmes. That is 7 receivers that are all better than anything McNabb has had not named T.O. And you saw what he did with T.O., so no need for me to post those numbers.
    
    Oh, and as much as I like Avant, it is LAUGHABLE at best that you just compared those two plays to each other. Avant has no where near the speed that Fitzgerald has and would have been run down even if he did catch the ball in stride. I don't pretend that McNabb is as accurate as Ben or Kurt, but maybe you should stop pretending that he has EVER been surrounded with the tools to get the job done. Look at the top 10 QB's in history. ALL of them played with people in the top 20 WR's ever. Coincidence? I don't think so.
    
    WAKE UP....or just keep hating.
  • steve01 replied February 04, 2009

    yadda yadda yaddda....Same old shtick...It gets old....You are clueless
• Qwest336 said February 04, 2009

  The Eagles should give McNabb another contract, but it's not about more money. If for no other rason, they should give him a new contract so that his cap number is lower. Everyone should know McNabb well enough by now to know that this is not about money. As you said, it is about security. And it benefits both the Eagles and McNabb to give him a new contract. So, what's the discussion?

  Reply

  
• willydee77 said February 04, 2009

  Whatever Quest, dont give me Santonio Holmes, yes he had a terrific Super Bowl but he had 55 catches this season, there were many seasons that the likes of james Thrash, Todd Pinkston, Reggie brown, LJ Smith, Kevin Curtis and Desean jackson all had more than 55 Catches. Look it up if you don't beleive that. And of course I am not stupid enough to compare Larry Fitzgerald with Jason Avant, I compared the very similar Route and the throws by TWO different QBS. And the truth is a good throw in that situation to Curtis or Desean Jackson would have definitely been a TD because those two can run with anybody. Avant may have gotten another 20 yards or so and that helps. And the throws those TWO(Ben and Kurt) made were so perfect and pretty it didn't matter who the receivers were. The best throw may have been the one that Santonio Holmes missed in the end zone. So don't tell me hes a hall of famer yet. I just want a QB who can make a nice throw in the perfect timing. A Great QB has the ability to make an average receiver good to great, a average to good QB(Don) has the ability to get his recievers blamed for his poor throws!

  Reply

  
  • steve01 replied February 04, 2009

    I love that you will have to live with the fact that he is a HOF! If #5 threw that pick at the goal line you, that is all you would be screaming about......You will never look at him objectively.
  • Qwest336 replied February 05, 2009

    First off, i love how you neglected to mention the other receivers that i named in hopes that discrediting one of the seven would discredit the whole argument. Nice try.
    
    Santonio steps on the field in Philly and would instantly become the second best receiver in the last decade. (No disrespect to Desean who looks real promising) And it's too bad that someone else got to point out that he didn't play the whole season and that they are a run first team...they beat me to the punch. However, since those points are made, i will go with the technical aspect of the game.
    
    Fitzgerald's presence on the field almost GUARANTEES that the safety on his side of the field will either be double teaming or has over the top help responsibility on every play. This makes the reads on every other receiver very easy. Zona puts a player in motion to see if the corner goes with him, if he does, it's man coverage...if not, it's zone. These are luxuries that Kurt has had HIS WHOLE CAREER. Now, as I mentioned, Kurt is more accurate than McNabb. But just the presence of a big name wide receiver (not to mention the two he has had in both places he excelled) makes reading the defense easy. We saw what McNabb did the one year he had that luxury...31 TD's, 11 INTs and a Superbowl visit.
    
    I'm a fan not a fanatic, so i can be honest in my evaluation...you ought to try it sometime.
• Zukny1 said February 04, 2009

  I personally think, The Eagles should not give him another contract. At least not this year. He still has two remaining years on his contract. I dont see how, the Eagles will want to extend him now.. when theres always a chance of another injury, or whatever else that can happen.
  
  We all know how the Eagles are soooo conservative with deals on older players! and in another 2 years he could either Win a superbowl, or lose his stuff...
  
  I dont think hes going to lose his stuff, and I would probably say he deserves another deal, but i would wait it out for another year too.

  Reply

  
• Zukny1 said February 04, 2009

  let me just comment to the posts above.
  
  I agree with willydee in some ways. I do believe a QB makes the receivers look better. I do think, having Kurt Warner on the Eagles would make our receivers look better then what they are with Mcnabb.
  
  HOWEVER:
  santonio holmes was injured part of the season ( which is why he only had 55 catches ) along with the fact that, THE Steelers are a running team first, pass second! ofcourse their receivers are going to have less catches.
  
  Maybe the way to utilize Mcnabb better is, Get a hard running back, and an awesome Tight End ( which he alwyas played his best years with a pro bowl TE )
  and those two positions change the game dramatically for Mcnabb to succeed.
  
  Hes not a bad QB, but every QB plays a certain way better... in 2002, 2003, 2004 we had a much stronger run game, and great TE.....
  That made mcnabb look great
  

  Reply

  
• steve01 said February 04, 2009

  Haters will never get it....Just give up on them....Willy and Zunky....you are a joke. If Mcnabb played the game that Kurt played in the Super Bowl you would be conveniently forgetting the 4th quarter comeback and focusing on the terrible first half....

  Reply

  
• Zukny1 said February 04, 2009

  The Anger man!
  
  Look we have facts!
  Mcnabb is Our QB, THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT RIGHT NOW!
  It would be dumb to assume, that Kolb is ready! it would also be dumb to pick up someone in the draft!
  
  Mcnabb is a decent QB but hes not GOD, and he sure isnt Peyton Manning, so we shouldnt expect him to be Peyton Manning!
  NOR SHOULD WE FOOL OURSELVES INTO PRETENDING HE IS PEYTON MANNING!
  
  the fact of the matter remains, The man Is good at certain parts of the game, and those parts of his game need to be Built up to make this team win!

  Reply

  
  • Qwest336 replied February 05, 2009

    He's not Peyton Manning. Once again, it is no coincidence that the best statistical QB's always had great receivers. Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Edgerrin James, Brandon Stokley all elevated Peyton's numbers.
    
    The problem is, people will act like i am taking something away from Manning when i am not. He is a great QB, no doubt about it. But it is my contention that McNabb was a great QB the one season he had TO. Imagine if he had weapons like Peyton has had across his whole career! How can people not realize this?
• MikeSB said February 05, 2009

  Ok vic. Your entitled to your opinion even though its wrong, which is what is great about this country. You can open your mouth and say something stupid, and i can respond and make you look foolish.
  
  Vic and Steve:Hall of Fame QB? Hardly. You actually have to WIN something, or be the best in the league on a consistent basis.
  
  And yeah McNabb "led" us to the Super Bowl , who did we play in the playoffs again that year? Atlanta and Minnesota? Seriously? The defense got us there, much like it got us to every NFC Championship game, and everyone NFC Championship game with the exception of 2004 McNabb came up oh so small.
  
  Against St. Louis who was rated LAST in the league in defense genius, couldn't lead us down the field to win a game , damn that sounds familiar.
  
  Against Carolina we scored how many points? THREE!!!!!
  
  Tampa Bay? PICK SIX.
  
  Donovan needs to actually take some of the blame sometime. For all the sh*t he claims to get he's sure got a lot of ass kissers on here.
  
  And Qwest, the discussion is McNabb as a whole, not just the contract. I'll never debate McNabb is a good QB, look back at his numbers in 2004 people say cause he had T.O, but the Birds passed for more yards this season then they did in 2004. So saying he has no weapons is no longer an excuse. Face it, in big games he chokes.
  
  The Eagles never win big games because of McNabb, but they certainly lose them. Granted, he may not be helped by lack of "weapons" make all the excuses you want. But he's been in more then one big game, and has come up small in ALL of them when it's mattered.
  
  

  Reply

  
• Qwest336 said February 05, 2009

  Don't give me the stats of 04. He threw for 41 more yards this season than that one, BUT HE SAT OUT THE LAST GAME OF THAT SEASON. AND he threw the ball 102 more times this season than that one just to get those extra 41 yards. If you want to see the difference that a treu number 1 makes, look at his TD difference (31 TDs to 23) and completion percentage (64% to 60%).
  
  Y'all overblow EVERYTHING and sometimes your anti-Donovan bias makes you refuse to look at reality.

  Reply

  
• Latinferno said February 05, 2009

  And we led the NFL IN DROPS this year. So that wasn't helping McNabbs stats either. Anyway back on topic:
  
  I think the Eagles should sign him for a 5 year contract. It's almost painfully obvious that he is the best QB Philly will have for the next 5 years. It has been proven that an "old" qb can make the Superbowl (Warner this year) and win it (Elway at age 37 and 38). Apparently a few of you weren't around for the Koy Detmer/ Bobby Hoying years to remember what its like to have a GARBAGE quarterback. Did McNabb blow it in the playoffs this year? What about those other years? Hmm.. maybe. But in the end there are 30 other teams (besides the Eagles) that DIDN'T WIN THE SUPERBOWL.
  
  Look how great Marino was. He didn't win it. Warren Moon, Jim Kelly and quite a few HOF that never won it (Kelly even had 2 HOF offensive weapons in RB Thurman Thomas, WR Andre Reed and 1 HOF defensive player Bruce Smith!). I'm hoping McNabb gets at least 1 Superbowl trophy/ring in Philly. And more offensive help is obviously needed due to our Red Zone issues the past few years (via star WR and better run blocking OL/spell RB for Westbrook). But the bottom line is It's better to have an opportunity to win it all than not even make the playoffs. I say give McNabb a new contract and some new "weapons" that he asked for LAST YEAR.

  Reply

  
• willydee77 said February 05, 2009

  If your going to bring up DROPS. Let make a new stat---BALLS CAUGHT THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DROPPED(A.K.A.)-Saving Donovans inaccurate ass! How many balls have been caught off the ground, on the wrong shoulder, leaping, diving, one handed. Come on lets keep it real. Drops for the most part is well overblown when talking about Donovan. And not all but many of the drops recorded were tough to catch balls. And I was around for Hoying, both Detmers, Jeff Kemp, Brad Goebel, Matt Cavanaugh, Rodney Peete, and all those bums, I know Donovan is in the bottom of the top 10 QBS in this league, probably 8th or 9th IMO. So that gives us one of the better QBs in the league. I know this and I also know that Kolb is not ready and may never be. I am strictly pointing out that HIS FLAWS might be preventing us from getting over that final hurdle. 4 NFC CHAMPIONSHIP LOSSES, 3 at Home, 3 as the Favorite and 11 Turnovers by Donovan in those games. And in the tampa and Carolina games he was horrendous. The Super Bowl loss as well he was mostly pathetic. The interceptions were terribly thrown balls, not drops that were picked off. Bad decisions that turned into turnovers and I did not even mention the 5 minute 2 minute drive where he supposedly threw up.

  Reply

  
• Latinferno said February 05, 2009

  I never said he was the most accurate quarterback. He gets hot/cold streaks but seems to be plagued by them (cold streaks) during big games. Was it totally his fault that we lost this years NFC championship? No. If I recall, Donovan doesn't play defense, but he did manage to get us the lead in the 4th quarter. Football is a team sport, and having more offensive weapons makes life MUCH easier. Remember 2004 when we were destroying teams on a regular basis? T.O. did make a difference and made our team that much better. We could benifit from having another #1 WR who is BIG and physical in the red zone. Look how bad Eli Manning has played without Plaxico. How much better would we be if Donovan had Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison for most of his career? I'm not saying McNabb doesn't make mistakes because he does. He also gets us out of a LOT of jams. Give him the weapons he has been asking for and we will dominate. Jackson is great and Curtis is good. Westbrook has a few good years left. Why not add more offensive weapons to make EVERYONE happy? I'm not here to bash McNabb, I'm here to say he's worth a new contract. And he is worth more help at this stage of his career. A star WR will make those tough catches more manageable, a good running game will help even further. And a defense that doesn't wilt for an entire half would also be a bonus. The Eagles are a good mixture of veteran and young players. NOW is the time to give D-Mac the help he deserves (and a contract long enough to give us a few chances at winning the Superbowl with the new talent).

  Reply

  
  • willardj replied February 05, 2009

    Alright I see your point. Donovan has some flaws in his game but he can still be made into a Superbowl QB if we give him the right pieces.
    
    Ok. Here is what I have to say. While the fan base has been clamoring for a star receiver the past few years, our FO has gone out and acquired Kevin Curtis and DeSean Jackson. These are two very good receivers. Not to mention acquired a supporting cast of Jason Avant and Hank Baskett who are both excellent at catching Donovan's rocket ball. This year, we had the peak of our defense. We ranked third in the NFL in total yards per game given up. We also had the peak of our offensive line. Its not likely that both Runyan and Thomas will return. We also had the peak of our running game. Westbrook will get offseason surgery which may not make him quite the same back he was before. So what am I trying to say? I am trying to say that McNabb just had a great team surrounding him as he has for the majority of his career (top 10 defense in 7 of 9 full seasons with Eagles). And he didn't WIN with them. Not many QBs have had this luxury. What has McNabb done with these teams? Regular season and some postseason success, yes. But a championship? Never. To put it simply, you do not need the perfect team to win a Superbowl. You just need a good one. A team that has the right leadership and, quite frankly, luck in place. The Cardinals were most definitely not the second best team in the NFL (at least going by the regular season). However, they were able to piece their team together at the right time (luck) while being led by a former Superbowl champion (leadership) and make one of the most improbable runs in the NFL. It would be nice to see our team actually play well for the final stretch of the season rather than reverting back to what made us inconsistent. It would be nice to see Donovan McNabb LEAD this team to victory rather than playing well, losing, and then blaming another aspect of our team. This year, I thought he would do it. I thought we had the best team in the NFL. However, Donovan has lived up to what he has been criticized for in his career: not winning the big one. Each Championship loss (NFC and Superbowl- 5 in total) can be blamed on someone other than Donovan. But that is not the point. The point is that Donovan had 5 opportunities to bring this city a Championship and failed every single time. Donovan may not have lost us all 5 of those games, but he definitely won't win them. Like Willydee said, 'that has been the story of his career.'
    
    
• willydee77 said February 05, 2009

  I never ever in any post on any thread said Donovan was to blame for this past NFC championship gam or any alone. But in this last game he didn't exactly help his defense out in the first half either. 3 and outs and 2 turnovers by Donovan helped to tire our Defense and dig us a bit of a hole. Was he able to pull us out of it. Yes. He was excellent from the mid 3rd quarter to late in the fourth, got us a lead that the defense couldn't hold onto, but he was given ample time on the final drive and failed to move the team, all I remember was 4 straight incompletions to end the game, 3 of them terrible passes. Curtis was interfered on 4th down and still thats a catch he usually makes. So No Don did not lose that game alone, but he did not Win it either. Thats the story of his career.

  Reply

  
• Zukny1 said February 05, 2009

  willard, I couldnt have said it any better!
  For weeks now, People keep saying look what we did in 2004. We got to the championship with a big time play making receiver.
  
  My point is, even in 2004 when our team was sooo perfect. WE STILL DIDNT WIN!
  kinda like your point with the Cards, Their defense was horrible, they had a lot of penalties all through out the year, Bad running game - no matter how u try to spin it.
  
  My point is, you dont need a perfect team, But the WHOLE Team needs to show up in every game in the play offs. Mcnabb didnt show up in the first half of the Cards game, and he didnt show up in the last minutes. And we can go on about him in The other 3 NFC championships to!
  
  I guess all im saying is, The next Franchise QB that plays for this team. I hope that guy has better leadership, and when his team loses, he wont say " I Did My Job "
  
  Kurt Warner, and Larry Fitz lead their team into that superbowl! When the tough got going, those two made plays! Thats what Hall of Famers DO!
  
  
  

  Reply

  
• MikeSB said February 06, 2009

  Ok, we are all making good points. I think we'd all agree we don't want Donovan to go, nobody is ready for Kolb.
  
  Can he win a Super Bowl? Sure, he's got the talent no doubt, just gotta get over that hurdle. Bottom line evidence from the past proves otherwise, and until he proves me wrong it's just how I'll feel.
  
  He's he a great QB? YES.
  The best we've had? YES.
  
  
  And I agree the whole team has to show up, but Donovan threw the D under the bus the other day, and all those NFC Championship chokes no one on the other side of the ball called him out. Sometimes I feel like Donovan has mental problems, he can't trust and can't help but hold a grudge. Dude,your a millionaire, your one of the best QBs in the league, your the best in franchise history and the majority of fans love you and are behind you every Sunday, get over it, and embrace it for what it is.

  Reply

  
• steve01 said February 09, 2009

  Sorry boys, have not been on in a while.....As I respect all of your opinions I must disagree with just about every one except: Great QB - Yes Best we have had - Yes.........I already posted an article for the argument of the HOF so I will not get into all of that. Mike, I think you misjudge the "majority" of the fan base. I do not believe they are behind him every week and I would go even further to say that many of them root against his success. There are two parts of this town...Pro Mcnabb and negadelphia....
  
  Mike, I must also take you on about your point of the defense carrying the teams int he 5 NFC championship runs. Many of those defenses, I would argue were carried by the offense. Jim Johnsons defenses were always built to play with the lead (small, fast Dline, blitzing, getting at the QB) Never stout. Top ten but got pushed around a lot when it mattered.
  
  Zunky, you proved my point about comparing the two QB's #5 and Warner. You say he made plays in the super bowl when it counted....I would argue both Don's NFC championship game and Warners Bowl game were very similar...If Mcnabb did what Warner did at the goal line at the end of the half that is all you would have been talking about.
  
  Willard, We will never agree but it is good to see you...Take care!!

  Reply

  
  • willardj replied February 10, 2009

    "Mike, I must also take you on about your point of the defense carrying the teams int he 5 NFC championship runs. Many of those defenses, I would argue were carried by the offense. Jim Johnsons defenses were always built to play with the lead (small, fast Dline, blitzing, getting at the QB) Never stout. Top ten but got pushed around a lot when it mattered. "
    
    2000-2004 TEAM STATS (Prime of Donovan McNabb)
    
    Offense Rank (Points)- 12, 9, 4, 11, 8
    Defense Rank (Points)- 4, 2, 2, 7, 2
    
    Almost a top 5 defense every single year. Pretty good offense. Our best offensive year (ranked 4th) was 2002. That was the year A.j. Feeley stepped in and went 6-1. Obviously Donovan is the better QB, I am just stating how our offensive success wasn't completely dependent on Donovan McNabb.
    
    ARIZONA SUPERBOWL STATS (Pittsburgh Steelers- #1 Defense in NFL)
    K. Warner- 31/43 377 yards 3 TD 1 Int
    Cardinals Total Net Yards- 407
    
    So it is possible to win a Superbowl when your defense gives up a good amount of yards to a pretty good offense. I'm pretty sure our defense had a better game against Arizona. Let me look it up... 369 total yards... Not very good yet still better than the Steelers, who were the number one defense in the NFL (in terms of yards) heading into the Superbowl. Pretty similar games actually... Very similar games now that I think about it... Both offenses, being down by one score, had a chance to drive down the field with a few minutes left in the game to even the score (or in the Steeler's case take the lead). One team succeeded, one didn't. That is why the Steelers are Superbowl champions and why the Eagles are sitting at home.
    • willardj replied February 10, 2009

      In not one of those years was our offense ranked better than our defense in terms of points or yards! I am not saying that we didn't have a good offense, we just happened to be built defensively. Our defense carried this team not our offense.
  • steve01 replied February 16, 2009

    Willard, I have not gotten time to check your stats but I believe you are good for it. I would like to see the yardage ranks those years....I bet they are very similar. As I have said the defenses had trouble stopping the run game but they used the "bend don''t break" approach. This is why they played much better with the lead. Opposing offense were not able to nuetralize them by commiting to the run. One major staple of the Ried / Jouhnson era has been not being able to punch it in down in the red zone but also the defense keeping teams out after giving up long drives....a major credit to the D but it was a major achiles heal in some big spots....
    • willardj replied February 16, 2009

      http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/phi/
      
      Offense (yards)- 9, 18, 10, 17, 17
      Defense (yards)- 10, 20, 4, 7, 10
      
      My point is still made clear. Our offense was top 10 twice while bottom 16, 3 times. Our defense was top 10, 4 times, while bottom 16 only once.
• willydee77 said February 10, 2009

  Steve, You can not compare Dons Championship failures to Kurts 1st half INT. Kurt was in a bigger game, The Super Bowl to which he has been THREE TIMES, Kurt brought his team back with just 2 minutes to play and got them the lead, sure its comparable that both defenses did not hold the lead but Don got the ball back with 2 and a half minutes left and CHOKED yet again. Look up Dons late 4th quarter drives with an oppurtunity to tie or win the game. Its laughable. I havent looked it up lately but there was a point midway through the season that he was 0-16 and that included 5 drives in the Bengal game alone, 4th quarter and OT. I am so sick of winning 9-11 games and choking in the playoffs. Lets start over. Also while the numbers and won/loss records are definitely in favor of Don being the Eagles greatest QB of all time, he lacked the arm strength, the accuracy, and the speed of Randall Cunningham, sure Randall was loopy but he was the better QB all around. Its a shame we couldnt blend the talents of the two guys. And before killing me for saying that, Do not forget that Randall was a 2-time MVP of the league.

  Reply

  
• Zukny1 said February 10, 2009

  agh, Willy Is right you can defiantely not compare Warners interception at the end of the half to Mcnabb. Our point has been all along, to look at what happens to Mcnabb at the end of the games! He is not the QB to get us down the field and score in the final minutes of the game! ( its just not in him )
  
  I dont think the answer is starting over though, because hes not a bad QB. We just need to build a lead up, in order to win him the big games. ( because playing from behind , is NOT his strong spot )
  
  But, on another note: The city of philadelphia made a dream team last year, Donovan Mcnabb was voted as the starting QB over every single QB to ever play in this city! BY A LARGE MARGIN
  The people of Philadelphia LOVE This guy! his friggen Jersey is Everywhere!
  
  If i had to choose: I would choose Cunningham over Mcnabb, but he barely beats him out in my eyes. ( they are both very similar play style, both strong arms, and speed ) But Cunningham could kick the ball (98 yards) and he had more agility

  Reply

  
• willydee77 said February 10, 2009

  When I say to start over it is not because I think Mcnabb is a bad QB. I think Don is GOOD, I just think the things he lack are holding us back. And yes the city overall does LOVE Don and yes his jersey is everywhere. I do not blame people, he is a top 10 QB, but I dont think he can get over the hump, why would I.
  And the randall thing is close, They both had strong arms yes, but Randall was much more Accurate and threw a much better deep ball.

  Reply

  
• steve01 said February 10, 2009

  I think it is completely absurd to argue that Randle had more talent. It is ridiculous to even assert that. The fact you say he had more arm strength really shows how little you know the game.
  
  Arm strength: Mcnabb (people in the league have said it could be the strongest in the NFL)
  Pocket presence: Mcnabb (not even close)
  Reading defenses: Mcnabb (see above)
  Accuracy: Mcnabb (58.9%----56.6%)
  Escapablilty: Even
  
  Just stop the nonsense!
  

  Reply

  
• Zukny1 said February 10, 2009

  yeah, but could he kick 98 yards :)

  Reply

  
• MikeSB said February 13, 2009

  I think some people just fall for Donovan's "Everyone's against me and I don't know why" pouting sessions. His jersey is every where, and he is the franchise. If EVERYONE hated him like some of you think then he certainly wouldn't want to be here, and he would have made that clear. I'm so tired of this negadelphia excuse, stop it. More times then not we speak the truth, and then there are two kinds of fans. The ones who speak the truth and the ones who fail to realize some important facts of the game and let there hearts make opinions for them.
  
  And without Jim Johnsons defenses those years, the Birds don't come close. Not taking anything away from the offense, but they were not the main reason for getting to those NFC Championships.
  
  Bottom line, he's the QB, certain things are expected.
  
  And the Randall Donovan debate has way to many factors. Andy Reid throws throws throws throws. Buddy Ryan told Randall to make a couple big plays a game, other then that he left him alone with that great Offensive Cordinator what was his name?? Oh yeah Rich Kotite. Randall could have been great if given the chance. I don't think the argument is as absurd as you may think.

  Reply

  
  • steve01 replied February 16, 2009

    Listen, it is obvious you just do not like the guy personally. If that is the case fine. If you do not like the way he handles himself in front of the media ok. That is the case for most of negadelphia. They do not have any other angle to take other than the "he is a whiner" or "he is not a true leader" or "he is a headcase". All of which are totally arbitrary arguments based on no substantial evedance. So I would argue you let your biases or your "heart" make your opinion for your instead of realizing and enjoying watching the greatest QB to ever where the eagles uniform. Oh but I forgot ....Randall.....Huh? Too many factors? Sounds to me like you have nothing.
    • willardj replied February 16, 2009

      But he is a head case!
      
      He explained picking up the phone on the sidelines after beating the Giants as "me being a veteran and being able to get away with that kind of stuff." He held a press conference after Kolb was drafted in order to discuss his feelings. He went on Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel to talk about how black QBs aren't treated the same, two weeks before the season started!
    • steve01 replied February 16, 2009

      I have no problem with you bringing up the many head case instances that go on around this guy. Some by his own doing, a lot magnified by an overzealous negadelphian media. I will concede he rubs some the wrong way. My only point is that it is personal not objective. This in turn effects the way you perceive everything including his play.
• willydee77 said February 13, 2009

  the Randall arguement is not absurd, Times were different statistically speaking, and I even mentioned that number wise and win/loss wise Don would go down with the better career in mosts eyes. But if you are just a knowledgable football fan watching both QBs, I feel randall was MUCH MORE TALENTED a QB than Donovan. You cant just go by numbers. Buddy Ryan was a bafoon when it came to offense and Randall had a terrible Ofeensive line his entire career while Don barely gets breathed on let alone sacked. Don never ever had an offensive talent even close to Brian Westbrook, yes, for a couple seasons he had Keith Jackson at TE, the starting recievers were better than average but not great. You have so many things that have to be taken into account.

  Reply

  
• MikeSB said February 14, 2009

  Yeah in many ways it's unfair to compare the two, however, i think an argument could be made, it is in no way absurd.

  Reply

  
• Zukny1 said February 14, 2009

  heres a crude new number for the Donovan / Randall Debate.
  Randall has only Won 1 play off game ( the one i went to ) Eagles Vs Lions .. Eagles blew em out
  another thing I want to add is...
  Eagles Defensive coordinator is amazing! and he is a huge part that the Eagles made it as far as they did in the play offs all of these years! But i dont want that to take anything away from Andy Reid.
  Andy Reid knows defenses wins games! Since Reid has been Coach, he has been drafting great Defensive players, and he spends high picks on those guys: Bunkley, Patterson, Trevor Laws, all high picks! and thats the last 3 years or so!

  Reply

  
• willydee77 said February 15, 2009

  Every Eagle fan knows Randall and Dons playoff records here. IMO though its not exactly that simple. As I said earlier theres too many things to take into it. And I did say that by the numbers and win/loss records, Don had the superior Eagles career.

  Reply

  
• MikeSB said February 15, 2009

  agree with both of you. It's a tough debate.
  
  And yeah Andy does not get enough credit for his drafting, if anything he gets killed for his picks. And that's just not the case, looking at most NFL teams drafts throughout the years the amount of hits and misses are about the same.
  
  And both Bunkley and Patterson have gotten little if any love and both have played at or close to pro bowl caliber the last two season, just without the gaudy numbers. They have both been very solid, and the little we have seen of laws he's looked like he could be the same type of player.

  Reply

  
• steve01 said February 16, 2009

  No contest, no debate.... Randal had arguably one of the best defenses ever assembled. I will give you he did not get much help from the coach.
  
  I am a knowlegeable fan and I realize Mcnabb is superior. Stats, wins, raw talent, head for the game. Whatever way you want to look at it. Your argument against #5 is the typical "NEGADELPHIAn" argument. Based in no stats because "oh stats lie". They lie only when they are against you. Lets just blow off the fact he may, when it is all said and done be in the top 5 winningest QB's of all time...Oh but that is because of his defense not him.....No matter what people like you will never give him the credit he deserves. So his stats lie and his defeses win games....Now, who does not know they game>?

  Reply

  
• Zukny1 said February 16, 2009

  are you F*ing Kidding me?
  
  All-Pacific Coast Athletic Association (PCAA) as quarterback and punter, PCAA Player of Year, All-America punter, 1983-84; named to the Pro Bowl as an alternate, 1987; started in the Pro Bowl, 1988-90, 1998; received the Bert Bell Award as the NFL Player of the Year, 1988, 1990, 1998; named NFL Most Valuable Player, 1990; earned second team All-Pro, 1992; became all-time leading rusher among quarterbacks, 1992; led the NFL in passing rating (106.0), 1998.
  
  Like i said before, its hard to compare the two because they both played on very different teams! But the question becomes... When did Donovan win MVP?

  Reply

  
• steve01 said February 16, 2009

  I hope Mcnabb works on his punting skills this off season, maybe then he could be mentioned in the same breath as Randall.....No MVP's for Don, yet. However you can compare the two. It is pretty simple....Who has a better handle on the position? Who has a better arm? Who is more accurate? Who has won more than one playoff game?

  Reply

  
• steve01 said February 16, 2009

  Previous post, but I figured it would go well here with all of you.
  
  
  I will start by saying that I do believe we will get a Super Bowl before he retires if we make the correct moves. With that being said here are the projected stats for Mcnabb....I rounded them all toward the low end just to make you happy....I will say that I think he will atleast play 4 more good years....Prob more like 5...but these are all based on a 4 year projection.....
  
  Passing Yards - 41,320 9th all time (guessing low @ 3000 a year)
  TD's - 274 8th all time (guessing a low 20 TD's a year)
  TD - INT ratio will be number 1 all time as it is now.....if not it will be up there.
  Completions - 3,734 7th all time (guessing a 300 a year)
  
  This also sets him apart RUSHING
  Rushing - 4,000 rushing yrds 5th all time
  TD's - 34 3rd all time
  
  This one is a killer WINS
  As of now he is 82-45-1
  If he averages 10 wins the next 4 years or plays longer as he should he will easily get to 120's in wins. That puts him in the Top 5 ALL TIME winningest QB's in the history of the game.
  
  I am not even going to go into playoff wins because he will be in the top 5-3 in that catagory as well.
  
  Imagine what these stats would look like with a few more years of a WR like TO or any type your boy Kurt Warner has had....
  
  I know where you will take this....Vinny Testi is right around the same PASSING numbers as MCnabb. First, he will be no where near the same wins.....and Vinny will have played in plenty more games considering all the injuries throughout Mcnabb's career.

  Reply

  
• willydee77 said February 16, 2009

  Steve01, roll over in your bed and tell Donovan he is overrated. Thank you.

  Reply

  
• Zukny1 said February 16, 2009

  hahhahahah agh thats funny

  Reply

  
• steve01 said February 16, 2009

  That was funny. I will give it thumbs up...But how about a response to the HOF argument? And I just realized you said Randall was a much more talented QB....wow....nevermind I do not need to know anything else.....

  Reply

  
• MikeSB said February 17, 2009

  I think it also has something to do with how old or young u were when you saw Randall play, that could change some peoples minds believe it or not. I'm not gettin into the debate anymore lol I love them both.

  Reply

  
• willydee77 said February 17, 2009

  First of all Steve I was NOT arguing a Randall/DON debate and I also said that when its all said and done Dons stats and W/L record will by far make him the best QB in team history. However in watching the 2 play, I believe, maybe just ME and this is only my opinion MY OPINION that Randall was more talented, yes TALENTED a QB than Donovan, Natural Ability to play the position. Not in every way, but I feel he was a more accurate passer with a stronger, much stronger arm and that says alot because Don has a cannon too. He was much much more athletic, Everything was just smoother for Randall than it is Don in my eyes. MY EYES. Again you will quote the statistics which I cannot argue only to say you must watch the games, Sometimes, YES SOMETIMES statistics lie just a little and take into the fact that completion percentages as a whole throughout the league were alot lower in the past than they are now, neither of the two QBS ever had a problem with INTs, except Don in playoffs, both have made outstanding athletic plays with their arms and their feet but I just feel Randall is superior in that dept. as well. Also Don has had the priveledge for most of his career of having a game changing RB in BWEST and even to a lesser degree Duce before him, Randall had the likes of Anthony Toney, Keith Byars and Heath freakin Sherman for crying out loud. The offensive lines in front of them is also a huge deal, as Don has pretty much consistently had all day to throw throughout his caree minus of course some instances and randall had to run for his life with the likes of Antone Davis, Dave Alexander and Mike Schad in front of him, And the las Huge factor when talking about these TWo are the coaching staffs, This current coaching staff is Offense oriented and the head coach is an offensive guy and it makes it easier to put the QB in succesful situations, We all know that Randall played for Offensive Bafoons, Starting at the top with Buddy, while he was a great GREAT Defensive mind, he cared not even a little about the offensive game planning and than he hired Rich freakin Kotite as his O.coordinator, so this all was not even fair. And lastly Randall also had a very good winning percentage in the League as well, not near the playoff success I will give Don that. Randall does have 2 MVPs though, that mean twice he was the BEST OFFENSIVE PLYER in the league, and Pro Bowls are close as well. Im just saying both have been great, lets not forget though what Randall did and what he was up against.

  Reply

  
  • LILEAGLE replied February 17, 2009

    you forgot about that great pro bowler vaughn hebron willy.....lol!!!
• steve01 said February 17, 2009

  My OPINION is that your OPINION is way off base.
  1. No where near a more accurate passer
  2. No where near the ability to read defenses
  3. Not a stronger arm. It is absurd to say Randall had a MUCH stronger arm.
  4. Not a MUCH better athlete. I will give you this one, but not by much....
  
  Here is the difference. I bring up facts such as stats....You bring up excuses...(coaches, completion percentages of the time??)
  
  It may have to do with age. I am 24 but Randall was my favorite player when I was young. I used to hear the same complaints about him. There were many who said he kept those teams with the "greatest defenses ever assembled" from winning championships....
  
  Using your logic his MVP's could be products of the time as well. There was really no one playing the position like him before that....And we could argue forever about who had better weapons around them....

  Reply

  
• willydee77 said February 17, 2009

  Steve you are 24 so now lets be honest Donovan is really the only QB you have seen, I am 32 so I am old enough to have seen them both in their prime. You were about 10 when Randall left town. I'm sorry we should end the so-called debate now because you are not qualified. And by the way randalls arm strngth was insane and Don can only match it with a bullet pass into the ground.

  Reply

  
  • LILEAGLE replied February 17, 2009

    that's the answer in itself for the most part !!! most mc nabb supporters on here only truly remember this decade!!!
    mc nabb is the only thing they really know!!! cunningham was a much better in my opinion!!! also the hits he took would have been illegal in this decade so of course his stats would be lower compared to mc nabb's cause in those days defenses had their way with receivers and qb's!!!
• Zukny1 said February 17, 2009

  Randall had the strongest arm.. i can ever remember!.......
  

  Reply

  
• steve01 said February 18, 2009

  Donovan is far from the only QB I have ever seen. I could go through the whole game of musical quarterbacks that plagued this town for so long. First, let me say that I really do appreciate having all of your guys attention. You all are some of the biggest #5 haters on this site, yet in most cases I respect you. I would rather debate with you than have all kinds of other nuts on my side ruining my arguments. You all have made some valid points but regardless of my age, I have also. To say I am not qualified to have this debate is just wrong....Did you ever play the game? I could simply disqualify you by your answer. Knowlege of the game is what matters, not age. So just like your other arguments on this subject, all excuses....no credible evidence to support your thesis...

  Reply

  
• steve01 said February 18, 2009

  Lets put this to rest and talk about what we are going to do this off season...Check out the article I just finished....Let me know where you think they are going....
  
  http://www.yardbarker.com/NFL/articles/Off_Season_Predictions/514855

  Reply