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Interview By David Friedman The 1984 NBA Draft produced four players who later were selected to the NBA's 50 Greatest Players List: Michael Jordan, Hakeem Olajuwon, Charles Barkley and John Stockton. Filip Bondy, who currently writes for the New York Daily News, began covering the NBA in 1979 and he has penned the definitive account of the events surrounding that epochal draft: Tip-Off: How the 1984 NBA Draft Changed Basketball Forever includes the recollections of many of the movers and shakers from the NBA in that era, some of whom--like Rod Thorn--are still active in the league today. Friedman: "What did you find out during your research for the book that surprised you the most?" Bondy: "I think that the parts that surprised me were, first of all, the 'woulda, coulda, shoulda'?I don't think that I understood the permutations that were possible, that it wasn't just Portland that blew this. A lot of teams, a half dozen teams, could have had Michael Jordan for various reasons or with various strategies, including the Houston Rockets, who get a free pass (after drafting Hakeem Olajuwon with the first pick) but really kind of blew it. They should have traded Ralph Sampson straight up for that number three pick (which became Jordan), which was something that was briefly discussed within the (Houston) organization and the Bulls would have accepted it. They had heard sort of vague rumors about that and they would have taken Sampson for that pick. You can only imagine that team with Olajuwon and Jordan for a dozen years or so. That is just one example. You can't forget that the Indiana Pacers traded away that pick for Tom Owens (in 1981). A lot of teams had opportunities that they failed to pounce on and it made a huge difference. I came to that revelation. Also, just the storytelling of the individuals who were involved?I learned a lot about Sam Bowie and the strength of his character. I learned a lot about Charles Barkley's wacky attempt to avoid being drafted by the Sixers. I didn't realize what a shotgun marriage that was for both sides." Friedman: "That was a very interesting situation and I assume that most people don't know about it. Philadelphia was one of the top teams in the league at the time, so one would assume that with them being high up in the draft that that would be a desirable location, that a player would want to go to a winning team; usually if you are a top draft pick you go to a team that is not that good. Talk a little bit about some of the specifics of that situation and why Barkley was not inclined to want to go there, primarily?as you explain in the book?because of some of the financial considerations at that time." Bondy: "Charles was all about the money at the time and probably for a good time afterward. He found out just a few days before the draft that the Sixers were one of the few teams in the league that were capped at the time?although they did manage to unloose themselves from that. Going into the draft, he thought that because they were capped that if they took him he would just get the league minimum of $70,000 (per year) and that was just not at all what Charles had in mind. So he then went about his nefarious eating binge in an attempt to gain enough weight to discourage the Sixers from picking him. The Sixers, meanwhile, were very reluctant about taking him and if they had had a better choice they would have taken it. They were one of the teams that understood Michael Jordan's worth and they desperately tried to trade up but they failed and then, as Pat Williams, their GM at the time, said, 'We suddenly were faced with a choice between two guys who tied their shoelaces by memory,' referring to Barkley and Mel Turpin." Friedman: "Obviously, they made the right choice in that regard (taking Barkley with the fifth overall pick). That leads right into another one of my questions. You talked a bit in the book about their attempt to trade Julius Erving for Terry Cummings. That was a story that fans found out about at that time. That became public knowledge. I was a kid at that time but I remember reading about that and hearing about that?but then you mentioned something that definitely was not public knowledge, which was that the Sixers attempted to trade Erving to Chicago for the pick that became Michael Jordan. Talk a little bit about that story. How did you find out about that? To the best of my knowledge, that was never reported at that time or even for years after that." Bondy: "I had never heard that story, either. I didn't hear about it from Rod Thorn, the Bulls' GM at the time. He never mentioned that. He mentioned all the other trades that the Sixers were desperately trying to put together for the third pick, like Andrew Toney and the fifth pick itself. I'm not even sure to this day whether Rod Thorn ever heard about that offer (of Erving), because I heard about it from Harold Katz, the owner of the 76ers, who apparently took it upon himself?and Harold took a lot of things upon himself back then?to offer this face to face to Jonathan Kovler, the president of the Bulls. Kovler apparently rejected it outright. I mean, it would not have made any sense for the Bulls. Erving had a couple years left but it would have been shortsighted?almost a publicity stunt--to bring Erving to Chicago at that point. But that is how I heard about it, from Harold Katz himself." Friedman: "Even though that would have been largely a p.r. move and not in the long term interest of the Bulls, that would have been a blockbuster deal at that time, because Erving was still considered a big star. That was just a couple years after the 76ers had won the championship and the previous season, 1983-84, Erving was on the All-NBA Second Team. He had been with Philadelphia for so long, if that trade had really happened that would still be talked about to this day." Bondy: "It's kind of interesting, also, because Rod Thorn had been an assistant coach with the New York Nets (in the ABA) when Erving was at his peak, so if anybody would have been tempted to make that deal it might have been Rod Thorn. It really never got that far. Thorn is pretty adamant that the only deal that he would have taken for the number three pick was Ralph Sampson and he did turn down Mark Aguirre. We think back now and say how stupid it would have been to take Mark Aguirre for Michael Jordan but at the time Aguirre was the second leading scorer in the league behind Adrian Dantley and he was a Chicago kid, so it would have been a very popular p.r. move to bring Aguirre back to Chicago; that was actually a little more tempting (then) than it sounds (today)." Friedman: "Sure, and during Aguirre's college career he had been the national player of the year at DePaul and, as you said, he was a native Chicagoan. He was a big star in the NBA at the time. You have mentioned some of the fascinating connections and quirks of fate that affected this draft. Talk a little bit about the situation with Cleveland and the domino effect that resulted from that. You mention in the book that (Cleveland owner Ted) Stepien's mismanagement led to Commissioner David Stern deciding that we can't have this guy owning a team. Take the story from there and how that eventually affected Dallas' chances of getting Michael Jordan." Bondy: "Stepien was the ultimate loose cannon. He said all sorts of crazy things that maybe some other owners thought but they never said them out loud. He actually said that we need white players to market our teams in the NBA. He was sort of the embodiment of political incorrectness. He also traded away the Cleveland Cavaliers' first round draft picks for years and years to come. Basically, the franchise was doomed forever unless something was done. It was hard to get a buyer. The Gund brothers, who would later build the arena in downtown Cleveland, owned the Richfield Coliseum, where the Cavaliers played at the time. They became the primary potential purchasers of the team and Stern wanted to make the team more attractive to them to get rid of Stepien. So he began to hand out free draft picks to the Cleveland Cavaliers and he asked the Dallas Mavericks, among other teams, to go along with this plan. The Mavericks had feasted off of the Cavaliers' draft picks for years but they finally agreed to it and the sale was made, the team was stabilized a bit and, as it turned out, the Mavericks missed out (on potentially drafting) Michael Jordan by one game" (the Mavs still owned the Cavaliers' first overall pick in 1984 but the Gunds stabilized Cleveland enough that the Cavs won 28 games to Chicago's 27 in 1983-84, so the Bulls got the third pick?Jordan?while the Mavericks, with the Cavs' fourth pick, took Sam Perkins. Norm Sonju, the Mavs' president at the time, told Bondy, "I can't talk about the 1984 draft without me crying a little bit. Perkins was a fine player but he wasn't Jordan of course"). Friedman: "It's just a fascinating story and something that most casual fans would not know about it. Another thing that you noted in the book is that at the time?and even shortly afterward?picking Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan did not seem like a disaster. Bowie made the All-Rookie Team and then Jordan missed most of his second season with a broken foot. You were covering the NBA at that time as a beat writer. When you were covering the league and all of this stuff was going on, what were your thoughts about Portland picking Bowie over Jordan, before it became obvious what Jordan was going to become and that Bowie was never going to be healthy enough to really be a major contributor?" Bondy: "I think that most of us understood that Jordan was an extraordinary talent and then when we saw him in his rookie year we knew that this guy was going to be really, really good. On the other hand, as you pointed out, Bowie was no slouch either during his rookie year and he seemed to fit very nicely in the Portland lineup and there was great upside potential with him. You could almost see him, in today's terms, being a Tim Duncan kind of player, a nice, heady, passing presence in the paint. It was thought at the time that both teams had done very well for themselves, that Portland was going to be fine and that Chicago got themselves a superstar that they would have to build around and that it would take years and years, we figured, for him to reach a level that would impact the league (in terms of team success). It was clear pretty quickly that Jordan was something special; you just had to watch the moves to understand that this kid was extraordinary. As for deciding that Portland had made a terrible mistake, I don't think we really did that until, as you suggested, the beginning of the third year. That was when it became obvious that Bowie was never going to amount to much because he had fallen prey to all of these injuries and it was also becoming very obvious that Jordan was lifting the Bulls much higher than most people had thought possible." Friedman: "Yeah, that third year is when Jordan averaged 37.1 ppg and you started to realize that maybe he is not just going to be the best player in the league but really start to contend for greatest player of all-time status, perhaps, or really just be at another level than anyone expected." Bondy: "He became transcendent. That is the word that I like to use to describe him by the third year. That is when we all said, 'That was some dumb move by Portland.' And we were all very happy that we had not been in Stu Inman's position at the time" (Inman, a great personnel man for many years, will sadly always be remembered, at least in part, as the man who drafted Bowie instead of Jordan). Friedman: "How would you rank the 1984 draft all-time? There are a lot of different draft classes that are talked about. In theory, this year's class is going to be good but you obviously can't really evaluate it yet. The 2003 one, with LeBron, Wade, Melo and Bosh, is considered great. I know that this wasn't the primary focus of the book, per se, but where would you rank the 1984 draft?" Bondy: "There are really only three drafts that you can talk about. It is too early to talk about the one that just took place and, frankly, a lot of the scouts who I've talked to are not as high on this draft?after the top two picks?as I think that some of the fans are. I may be proved wrong but I don't think that the 2007 draft is going to rank with the other three that we should be talking about, which are the 1984, 1996 and 2003 drafts. Those are really the three drafts that you could make an argument are the greatest ever. I think that you can go back and forth all you want, but I would just argue that the 1984 draft had the greatest overall impact on the marketing of the league and part of that was just because of the cult of personality and Jordan's transcendence and also the fact that it came at such an opportune time: a new era, with a new commissioner and a new salary cap, a new broadcasting contract and also the beginning of the slam dunk highlights that you started to see constantly on TV with the advent of more and more sports on TV." Friedman: "I was going to ask you about the enduring legacy of the 1984 draft but you basically just answered that in the process of answering my previous question. The other two drafts that you mentioned included Kobe Bryant and Steve Nash in 1996 and then the 2003 draft is the one that I mentioned with LeBron, Wade and so forth." Bondy: "Those are the three that I think jump out at you. If you look at some of the names in 1996 it is pretty amazing." Friedman: "Yeah and the fact that neither Kobe nor Nash were taken in the first ten picks. That could be a book or something." Bondy: "Yeah. That was the Iverson draft."

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